Session 3.08 - S3 Ep3: Meanwhile in Beleriand

Those could be beast- orcs... Who behave in a more animal- like manner... Animal also does mean like nature- beasts - in a way- but like nature beasts who have been terribly mistreated... And these have an appearsnce not that far from elves... Which should be part of the horror.


As for the melkor crew... Yes and no! Their cruelty certainly is there - always- but it's also dangerous to overplay such things ( yes pj bashing again... Sorry).

Last thing i would like to have angband look like the underworld version of dynasty or dallas ... However i did like the godfather refetence the excs brought on.
 
Finally got to listen to latest recording. Anything I would have added was covered except one thing. Uinen's griefstorm/ragestorm.

I have two problems with the whole griefstorm incident.

One. We haven't slotted in the death(s) of anyone we care about in the ships. It's all redshirts. Everyone we know the name of and the story of makes it through just fine.

Two. Nobody important dies. That means it *has* to be an unintentional act by Uinen. Morally, there's no difference between her sinking a ship full of unimportant Noldor chumps vs sinking Feanor's ship (there's a narrative distinction but not a moral one). And I can't imagine her not being able to sink whichever particular ship(s) she desires if it was deliberate. Therefore it only makes sense, if random chump ships are the only ones sinking, if the storm is undirected/mostly accidental.
 
Haerangil said:
As for the melkor crew... Yes and no! Their cruelty certainly is there - always- but it's also dangerous to overplay such things ( yes pj bashing again... Sorry).
Click to expand...
Did you think anything about Sauron was scary in PJ's movies? I agree that they overplayed The Evil of it all and it was all very cartoonish but that's not what I'm going for. I don't want Skeletor evil, I want evil that actually makes you feel bad.
 
So for the encounter with the Dwarves...

Let's say the Dwarves see Mablung first and we see the Dwarves of Belegost as well as the Dwarves of Nogrod. They could debate (in a language we don't understand but we could still guess what's going on) whether to contact him or not, or maybe attack him even, and it all ends with the Nogrod Dwarves retreating into their mountain tunnel (maybe even closing their newly constructed doors), while the Belegost Dwarves make contact with Mablung. So we show right from the start that the two groups have different approaches.
 
Good Ideas...

I like Alien Encounters. How does it work then? Does Mablung explore tunnels or do the Dwarves have expeditions/Caravans through the Aboveworld? It it mountain/Dwarf teritory or Woodland/Elf territory where everything happens? I guess a young Gamil is there?
 
Haerangil said:
Good Ideas...

I like Alien Encounters. How does it work then? Does Mablung explore tunnels or do the Dwarves have expeditions/Caravans through the Aboveworld? It it mountain/Dwarf teritory or Woodland/Elf territory where everything happens? I guess a young Gamil is there?
Click to expand...

I think if Mablung wants to explore tunnels, the Dwarves would be reluctant to let him do that. So probably the Dwarves let him guide them in the Aboveworld.

I think that I have to adjust the scenario I sketched above, though. The two Dwarven groups won't have tunnel doors that close to each other. So this is what we do instead:

We see Dwarves making their way along the mountainside (these are the Nogrod Dwarves - Firebeards?, but that doesn't have to be clear to the viewers at this point). At some point, they halt and seem to listen to the rock wall. They make laughing noises while setting up camp. Later, we hear cracking sounds, and the rock breaks. A tunnel opening is created in the mountainside, and out comes more Dwarves. These are the Belegost Dwarves (Broadbeams?). They are welcomed by the waiting Dwarves. Together they look at Beleriand. Some distance eastward downhill, they see an elf. He is looking right at them (they have been making quite a lot of noise). The Nogrod Dwarves hide (or at least retreat), but the Belegost Dwarves keep eye contact with the elf and a couple of them (including Azaghâl?) make a move towards the elf (Mablung, obviously).
 
Have you included the idea that the Elves had already encountered the Petty-Dwarves and had violent encounters with them, with the Dwarves ambushing and knifing Elves for no apparent reason, and the Elves mistaking them for animals and hunting them? If that happened there is going to be a discussion about that at some point, between the Eglath and the larger Dwarves, once the latter find out. They despise the Petty-Dwarves but won't be happy about outright killing them.
 
Faelivrin said:
Have you included the idea that the Elves had already encountered the Petty-Dwarves and had violent encounters with them, with the Dwarves ambushing and knifing Elves for no apparent reason, and the Elves mistaking them for animals and hunting them? If that happened there is going to be a discussion about that at some point, between the Eglath and the larger Dwarves, once the latter find out. They despise the Petty-Dwarves but won't be happy about outright killing them.
Click to expand...
I don't think we've included that. It has been mentioned I'm sure but is it essential and necessary? I'm hesitant since too many threads could be confusing. Well maybe we can squeeze it in. Maybe in the Mîm-Eöl scene?
 
The Elves could at first confuse petty dwarves and Orcs... after what Beleg and Mablung may or may not have found in the Orc camp they could hunt those creatures, but instead of orcs they , well they by mistake kill petty dwarves. When the Blue mt Dwarves hear of that they won#t be amused, despite the petty dwarves being outcasts from the east..
 
In my experience, using dialogue is pseudo effective. You have to make a special dialogue scene that's just as long as a scene showing the info or repeat spoken info three times to make it stick.
 
Haerangil said:
The Elves could at first confuse petty dwarves and Orcs... after what Beleg and Mablung may or may not have found in the Orc camp they could hunt those creatures, but instead of orcs they , well they by mistake kill petty dwarves. When the Blue mt Dwarves hear of that they won#t be amused, despite the petty dwarves being outcasts from the east..
Click to expand...
Not likely. Do orcs have beards?
 
Well, why not? And what do you do if you hunt for some strange , savage creatures who hide in underground places, but you're not entirely sure what they look like?
 
Such a development in the story would have to happen in episode four, right? We should give it some thought. I do think though that if Beleg is the only witness in this the first encounter it is possible that his description can be sketchy enough to allow those trying to find creatures based on that description to make mistakes and attack one or two Petty-dwarves. Beleg can't be everywhere checking if people get the right kind of beasts.
 
Well... It's not that we have to do it that way. If we feel it won't work for the audience we maybe should think of another solution... Handle the petty dwarves over to the greenelves or something similar - i don't think mim would make a difference to him elves are elves.

It is just that all our first encounters happen right now, with all the canonical mistakes and tragedies we know of.so we could consider to connect open ends..
 
Perhaps we can combine it with the upcoming story of how the Sindar took over Menegroth. According to the outline, Mîm was kicked out of there. Maybe the Sindar don't even get what kind of beings he and his kin are and the elves run them off firing arrows at them, and some of the Petty-dwarves die.
 
I have quite a bit of catching up to do!

I was wondering if one of the subplots of the Beleriand arc could be 'Eol searches for a home'. He's a loner and nobody wants him, but he could be a good constant for all the different people meeting him to dislike him. That could also tie some of the individual encounters together. So, at first, he dislikes hanging out with the Sindar in the forests of Doriath (didn't you people....leave?), so he goes exploring a bit and finds the caves of Menegroth, meeting Mim. Mim's response is very territorial 'get off my lawn!' and Eol goes on to Nan Elmoth, but Thingol is maybe not super-pleased with the cantankerous loner dark elf setting up shop in his honeymoon suite. Dwarves come along and have a tentative interaction with the Sindar, but Eol is *fascinated* and wants to visit their home. He gets an invite, while the other Sindar do not. If the non-diplomatic character we've been showing does a better job at inter-species diplomacy in this once case, well, that could be a neat story.
 
That could be a subplot, definitely. To me it's important though to have all scenes or as many as possible relate to Thingol and his kingship and the best time for the Sindar - and how that time starts to come to an end. Later, Thingol will turn into a possessive and irritating person. We want to see the journey. This episode is the start. (Well we've seen him before but you know)
 
Just checking: how important do people think it is to let the first battle of Beleriand be the one that’s usually called the First Battle of Beleriand - where Denethor is killed? Shall I finish working on such an outline for the season?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top