Swords

About kopis and khopesh again...

I think the khopesh looks far more bizarre than the kopis. Bizarre to me is analogous to orcish.

Thinking pseudo-evolutionary i would prefer it this way:

The valar do know about weapons. They do have knives, spears, bows, maces... All based on tools.

The earliest elf- weapons are imitations of these styles.

When melkor first teaches the elves to make swords these are more kopis- like.. Duilin still uses one of these archaic blades. But feanor them decides to forge a more elegant looking blade- an enlarged xiphos variant. Then the noldor all start to wear this sort of blades and the earlier, more bent models get out of use instead of another, more falchion- like model in addition to the long sword type.

Later as the noldor meet orcs and trolls , and tje ircs are starting to use chain and ring armour too, they move on to more pointed blades closer to arming sword and estoc types, able to pierce scale and splint armor ( or troll hide).

The orcs at first also use kopis- like blades, the way melkor teaches them, but they start modifying them more to their taste and get to more khopesh, bent& sawtoothed types ( or the demons of angband do first) .


The khopesh idea came only out of the suggestion of utilizing the "plowshares into swords" imagery, and since Melkor is looking over Fingolfin's shoulder while it is being made, I don't have a problem using a curved blade for the elves here. As to the subjective idea of how "bizarre" a sword is... I'm not sure what to do with that. It certainly seems, to me, to be a beautiful, elegant, and deadly weapon. I have no logical argument that can defeat a subjective opinion of aesthetics.

As to the idea of assuming that Tolkien meant "large" when he said "mighty".... I don't think that we necessarily have to do that. The sword will be visually striking, and it is clearly a more versatile blade than the ones of Fingolfin's design.

As to the idea of the Noldor basing their early weapons on the designs of the Valar, I remind you that the Valar are not bound by physics in the same way the elves are, nor by materials. Keep in mind also that in Season 2, the hosts expressed the desire for the Ainur to not be wielding physical, manufactured weapons. This is why we discussed all of this then.
 
Well of course i see the points you make. I merely rty to rationalize from an inner- work logic...

The valar do not need weapons & armour. Yet i made the point that despite their needs they DO seem to have sorts of armour ( ulmo) and at least tools and wespons for hunting ( orome) and they do give sorts of weapons to the eldar for defense on the great journey.

Second i made the point which role curved blades do play in jrrts writings in which they seem to represent exotic or alien wesponry (orcs, haradrim, duilin) while straight blades do play the role of aesthetic artful design ( beleg illustration, smaugs hoard).

Third i just made the point how to show Optically to an audience that feanor made himself a " mighty sword", a weapon that should appear intimidating , impressive and powerful - how can we do this in a visual way.

I am in no way adamant in my views here, i merely tried to negotiate between inner- work logic, evolution in techique as we might want it for the series and visual presentation to a hypothetic audience... So i tried to put together my ideas and arrange some kind of order .
 
Perhaps the Ainur can conjure weapons, like Hela from Thor: Ragnarok? Eonwe is often depicted with a sword.
 
Perhaps the Ainur can conjure weapons, like Hela from Thor: Ragnarok? Eonwe is often depicted with a sword.

For good reason. He is the greatest in Arda with arms. However, yes, the hosts seemed to prefer the idea of the Ainur having their weapons and armor being part of their form.

Second i made the point which role curved blades do play in jrrts writings in which they seem to represent exotic or alien wesponry (orcs, haradrim, duilin) while straight blades do play the role of aesthetic artful design ( beleg illustration, smaugs hoard).

Again, since Tolkien also describes orcish swords as straight, I don't think we need always assume that curved swords=bad swordsman.

Third i just made the point how to show Optically to an audience that feanor made himself a " mighty sword", a weapon that should appear intimidating , impressive and powerful - how can we do this in a visual way.[/QUOTE]

Firstly, this is the first time an elf has drawn a weapon on another in anger. It will be plenty intimidating regardless of sword design. Secondly, swords are impressive and powerful without needing to be massive. There is no doubt that the audience will see Feanor's sword as superior to those around him.
 
The only straight orc- blades i can remember are those of saruman's orcs or uruk- hai... And these are described as an exception, weapons unusual for orcs in general.
 
No but with mixing of cultures. Just as sarumans orcs look and behave more like evil men, they also equip rhemselves more like men.
 
For good reason. He is the greatest in Arda with arms. However, yes, the hosts seemed to prefer the idea of the Ainur having their weapons and armor being part of their form.



Again, since Tolkien also describes orcish swords as straight, I don't think we need always assume that curved swords=bad swordsman.

Third i just made the point how to show Optically to an audience that feanor made himself a " mighty sword", a weapon that should appear intimidating , impressive and powerful - how can we do this in a visual way.

Firstly, this is the first time an elf has drawn a weapon on another in anger. It will be plenty intimidating regardless of sword design. Secondly, swords are impressive and powerful without needing to be massive. There is no doubt that the audience will see Feanor's sword as superior to those around him.

Maybe something that doesn't have all the pointy bits people like to have on blades in fantasy video games, simply a blade that is clearly meant for killing?
 
Will we include Sting when we talk of swords from Gondolin? Will we see it at Orcrist’s side? What it Earendil’s first sword?
 
Will we include Sting when we talk of swords from Gondolin? Will we see it at Orcrist’s side? What it Earendil’s first sword?

Honestly, I would rather not have Sting stand out as any particularly great elf-lord's weapon. As to Earendil, probably an arming sword.
 
Honestly, I would rather not have Sting stand out as any particularly great elf-lord's weapon. As to Earendil, probably an arming sword.
Not as a main weapon, more of a small sidearm, with no great deeds to its name. When we see it in The Hobbit, it doesn’t have inscriptions as Orcrist and Glamdring have, which detail their names in Elvish and in Glamdring’s case, its owner.
 
Not as a main weapon, more of a small sidearm, with no great deeds to its name. When we see it in The Hobbit, it doesn’t have inscriptions as Orcrist and Glamdring have, which detail their names in Elvish and in Glamdring’s case, its owner.

My point is to not give Sting a grand lineage. Having many soldiers carrying a similar dagger seems more interesting to me.
 
Problem is: Sting has no Name. So following JRRTs logic it has not done any great deeds yet, not before Bilbo uses it against spiders. So i´d rather not give it any backstory..
 
Hadhafang is a confirmed elvish swordname, though JRRT never really used it... it´s like with the Dragon names Gorstir and Lhamthanc...
 
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