Caranthir
- Thread starter Haerangil
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Ange1e4e5
Well-Known Member
Yes, he was.
I think that the Hosts maybe didn't realize they had that requirement, until they saw the nominees for Caranthir, and had the 'these guys are all too skinny/wimpy'! reaction.
The goal is to make Caranthir look like a bruiser. Not necessarily super tall (Maedhros, Turgon, and Finrod are all 6'5", so he can be shorter than them!), but like he has the frame to back up his brash fighting words. So, maybe a guy who is at least 6' and has broad shoulders or some bulk to his arms. He doesn't have to be extra built for that; we're not looking for an American football lineman here. Just a rugby player.
So, going through the roster of the Marvel films...well, this is a combination of casting choices, costuming choices, and acting. After all, while Bruce Banner doesn't come across as a guy who would be any good in a fight, Mark Ruffalo likely *could* play a much tougher guy. And Loki is only small in comparison to his brother. So, 'imposing' is at least partially about costume and acting decisions, not simply a matter of casting. But you have to start with the casting, I guess.
Not Thor, not Drax, not Thanos - these guys are too big.
Not Loki, not Bruce Banner, not Tony Stark, not Vision - these guys don't come across as physically imposing.
'Just right' - maybe something more along the lines of Captain America, the Winter Soldier, Black Panther, or maybe even Star Lord
I realize that 'lithe' is a typical way of thinking of elves, but maybe shift a bit more towards action hero/villain physique.
The goal is to make Caranthir look like a bruiser. Not necessarily super tall (Maedhros, Turgon, and Finrod are all 6'5", so he can be shorter than them!), but like he has the frame to back up his brash fighting words. So, maybe a guy who is at least 6' and has broad shoulders or some bulk to his arms. He doesn't have to be extra built for that; we're not looking for an American football lineman here. Just a rugby player.
So, going through the roster of the Marvel films...well, this is a combination of casting choices, costuming choices, and acting. After all, while Bruce Banner doesn't come across as a guy who would be any good in a fight, Mark Ruffalo likely *could* play a much tougher guy. And Loki is only small in comparison to his brother. So, 'imposing' is at least partially about costume and acting decisions, not simply a matter of casting. But you have to start with the casting, I guess.
Not Thor, not Drax, not Thanos - these guys are too big.
Not Loki, not Bruce Banner, not Tony Stark, not Vision - these guys don't come across as physically imposing.
'Just right' - maybe something more along the lines of Captain America, the Winter Soldier, Black Panther, or maybe even Star Lord
I realize that 'lithe' is a typical way of thinking of elves, but maybe shift a bit more towards action hero/villain physique.
It’s a question of how to convey “strong” to an audience in a visual medium, isn’t it? Legolas is both slender as a young willow, and very strong, according to one letter. But on a screen you need to show either feats of strength, or a visual shorthand.
Yeah, exactly - how do you make someone 'look' strong? And storytelling is part of it; certainly, there have been characters who aren't terribly physically imposing, but do amazing feats within the story, so the audience knows to expect that from them. No one who plays Spiderman has to be 'built', for instance, and yet he can stop trains like Superman. And someone like River Tam is meant to be able to take on anything even though she's a small slip of a girl.
I currently somewhat like Sebastian Stan for Caranthir. He's 6' tall (so not overly tall for one of our elves), 35 years old, and weighs 78 kg (172 lbs). He plays 'broody' well, so I think he'd manage Caranthir's personality just fine.
For contrast, Jason Momoa is 38 years old, 6'4" tall, and weighs 106 kg (234 lbs). He is ripped enough to frequently be cast in roles requiring a shirtless guy show off his muscles
. I don't think we need *that* much muscle for Caranthir, just that he not look too skinny.
The idea is to find someone who looks like he could survive a bar fight without any serious damage, and could maybe be a believable smith. Strong, but not crazy strong.
I currently somewhat like Sebastian Stan for Caranthir. He's 6' tall (so not overly tall for one of our elves), 35 years old, and weighs 78 kg (172 lbs). He plays 'broody' well, so I think he'd manage Caranthir's personality just fine.
For contrast, Jason Momoa is 38 years old, 6'4" tall, and weighs 106 kg (234 lbs). He is ripped enough to frequently be cast in roles requiring a shirtless guy show off his muscles
. I don't think we need *that* much muscle for Caranthir, just that he not look too skinny. The idea is to find someone who looks like he could survive a bar fight without any serious damage, and could maybe be a believable smith. Strong, but not crazy strong.
I do like Momoa - and he is certainly physically imposing. We'd put different makeup on him as Caranthir than he had for Khal Drogo. I think I was maybe worried about swinging too far in the other direction, though. Like, fine, you don't want a wimpy looking guy? Take THIS! When really, we just need any guy who can handle himself in fight scenes.
Personally, I've always thought of Celegorm as the big bruiser fighter type (stereotypical 'jock') amongst the Fëanoreans, and Caranthir as the weird loner. So, I was a bit caught by surprise by the requirement that Caranthir be the tank of the group...but once I heard their logic, I see where they're coming from.
One method of discussing characters is to figure out where they fall on the jock/nerd and prep/goth spectrums. Like so:
(Not that I think these are the best placements/examples of LotR characters, but it gives you a starting point for the conversation; this example forced the members of the Fellowship into that grid.)
That chart works better if you allow people to slide along the scale in any direction:
So....we want Caranthir to be a Goth Jock, apparently. Twitter seems to have some opinions about what that is.....
pic.twitter.com/AJRYGpLvar
And Adam Driver is certainly a possibility for that.
Personally, I've always thought of Celegorm as the big bruiser fighter type (stereotypical 'jock') amongst the Fëanoreans, and Caranthir as the weird loner. So, I was a bit caught by surprise by the requirement that Caranthir be the tank of the group...but once I heard their logic, I see where they're coming from.
One method of discussing characters is to figure out where they fall on the jock/nerd and prep/goth spectrums. Like so:
(Not that I think these are the best placements/examples of LotR characters, but it gives you a starting point for the conversation; this example forced the members of the Fellowship into that grid.)
That chart works better if you allow people to slide along the scale in any direction:
So....we want Caranthir to be a Goth Jock, apparently. Twitter seems to have some opinions about what that is.....
pic.twitter.com/AJRYGpLvar
And Adam Driver is certainly a possibility for that.
I suggested Joe Manganiello as Fingolfin before. That didn't win. However, the way the execs want Caranthir to be, I think Manganiello could be an excellent choice. He's very tall (1,96 meters), athletic, big and muscular. But not like a bodybuilder. He's a good actor too with quite a bit of range, which would be needed for such a character.
Here's his IMDB. And here's a picture:
Here's his IMDB. And here's a picture:
But he’s over 40. He’s going to be 50 before Caranthir dies. Come to think of it, Momoa is almost too old, as well.
We pushed the limits a bit with the first generation but we really have to keep it down now. This is not just me saying this btw, the execs were onto us about older guys last year.
We pushed the limits a bit with the first generation but we really have to keep it down now. This is not just me saying this btw, the execs were onto us about older guys last year.
Without the beard he does indeed look quite young for his age. Elves are immortal too, and Caranthir is for sure 'grown' by now. If one elf is for example 2000 years old and his son is 1000, would you then look at them and immediately see that 'yeah, that must be father and son'? I can understand if 40 might be too much for an elf, but giving it to a 'young' person may make Caranthir just what the execs feared: a brat, a spoiled child and so on. And it's not like the other fëanorians have been cast as teens. Both Barnes and Thompsett are 36 years old.
I agree, he looks young for his age. But Caranthir will be with us for many years. And yes, I think we pushed the limit with Barnes. That doesn’t mean we can cast an even older guy as the younger brother.
It doesn’t really matter that all elves look more or less the same human age at a certain stage in their lives. We have to adjust a little bit to our human viewers who might get the idea that sons and fathers look the same age but they won’t consider that fact actively and consciously while following the show. I think a few years older will be fine but this guy is something like ten years older than the guy who plays his uncle Fingolfin.
It doesn’t really matter that all elves look more or less the same human age at a certain stage in their lives. We have to adjust a little bit to our human viewers who might get the idea that sons and fathers look the same age but they won’t consider that fact actively and consciously while following the show. I think a few years older will be fine but this guy is something like ten years older than the guy who plays his uncle Fingolfin.
Ange1e4e5
Well-Known Member
Plus the Treadaway brothers are in their mid-thirties.