Part 2: A Closer Look at my Role
I see my role as that of a liaison - I am responsible for taking the ideas from the messageboards to the Execs, and helping to explain the podcast decisions of the Execs on the messageboards. I don't speak for the Execs, though; I only give my own impression of what they already said themselves. This does become tricky when I'm also a participant in this project with my own opinions of what should be done. I try to be very open to any ideas that are compatible with our goals and prior decisions, but I'm sure there have been times I dismissed an idea too quickly or supported my own idea without realizing my bias. There are obviously times when I misunderstand. One of the reasons I had enjoyed being 'unofficial' was because it meant I always got to speak for myself.
That being said...how does what I do translate into actually conveying information? Let's look at a few recent examples.
First, a 'good' example: Hildorien
This slide will appear in the next session
Those who read through or participated in the discussion on the thread will recognize some of the points made, though obviously there's no room for all the details. I wanted to emphasize what I thought the key points of what we are 'asking' for in our Hildorien plotline, and allow the Execs to discuss that.
Here is the text summary I will provide them on the topic:
Fall of Men in Hildorien
- Morgoth and Sauron work together to bring about the (off screen) Fall of Man
- Borrow concepts from Lost Tales and Tale of Adanel
- If we’re not going to show this, why do we care? Because we need to know when to send Morgoth/Sauron away and let them talk about their plans. It can be only the vaguest of allusions, but we still need to know what they’re doing!
- Men fall before meeting the Avari, but Avari can play a role in the aftermath as the Edain learn to trust them.
- Concept worked out by Amysrevenge and Faelivrin:
- Morgoth goes off to find Men. Finds them, they are terrified. He goes home to reassess.
- Morgoth sends Sauron off to the Men in his Annatar guise. He offers them any number of improvements to their lives (bricks? metal? weaving? bowls and plates and pretty things?) but no improved lighting (which is actually a big deal when you don't have it). All gifts, with no direct costs. He starts asking questions about why they haven't been shown these things before. He reinforces a primal fear of the dark, things that go bump in the night. When they tell him about the Voice, he warns them it's the voice of the evil Darkness that wants to eat them. He primes them for the return of Morgoth, (who will come in a time of darkness, bearing great light). Sort of warns them about his appearance, in a way that makes it more impressive and less terrifying. Goes back home.
- Morgoth returns to Hildorien in golden armor, with the eclipse, the Silmarils in the darkness, etc. He tells them that the Darkness is coming to eat them and they must choose Now! Which will be their master? Those who still listen to the voice, bring them to me and make them kneel down. Men begin to worship Morgoth. The physical alteration is gradual but begins immediately, in that generation. Morgoth demands a temple, and leaves again.
- Morgoth and Sauron are busy now in Angband, but feel like they've got Men under control. They sent a lesser lieutenant (Fankil?) East to watch over things. Something goes wrong under Fankil's watch, resulting in a schism, with the Men who will become the Edain heading West. Ermon leads the first group to leave? Fankil is priest-king of the remaining Satanists in Hildorien. Or should there be a battle that destroys the temple?
This way, they have access to the fuller ideas (still not the entire thread or the discussion of the significance of the Fall of Man or anything like that). If anything in that catches their interest/attention, they can repeat it on the podcast, but they can also use it to consider which way to go with certain ideas.
Now, for a less good example (hey, I'm a teacher, I'm used to grading things, and I would not give this one an A+):
So what's going on here? I wanted to create a 'placeholder' to get some of our ideas for our very intricate/involved Dwarf/Noldo interactions onto a slide and...I botched it. I tried to include key character names, and set a context...but in the end, what was conveyed by this was my own idea (Aegnor visits Himring) and what was
not conveyed very well was Mike's idea (how Caranthir accidentally encouraged Telchar to show her genuine appreciation of an elf by gifting Narsil to him). Not my best synthesis job ever, that's for sure.
So, what did this summary look like in the document sent to the Execs with the Powerpoint?
Amysrevenge’s suggestion: “The obvious (to me) connection between Caranthir and Dwarves, beyond geographical, could easily be based in craft. Caranthir's head is probably filled with all sorts of knowledge that the Dwarves would love to have.”
- Caranthir befriends the Dwarves. He is initially unimpressed with their work, but quickly realizes that they have the capability to produce in quantities the Noldor can't even imagine (they have never felt the need for mass production before, so each Noldor work is a piece of art). He later learns that there are artisans among the Dwarves who can rival the Noldor with their craft as well. He provides the Dwarves with some technical knowledge that is difficult for them to utilize, as it requires some sort of material or process that is apparently only available in Valinor (maybe a hotter fire than the Dwarves can manage?).
- Later on, Aegnor is visiting Caranthir while Curufin is there. They go out to Belegost. While they are being celebrated at a feast, Aegnor overhears Telchar and another artisan quietly talking about attempting a new approach to solving the technical challenge of Caranthir's knowledge. Aegnor is able to solve their problem with his own knowledge of metallurgy (a way to use the process without as much heat?). Caranthir, afraid of seeming like a chump, boastfully asks the Dwarves to reward his clever cousin with a gift. Telchar gladly gives him Narsil (and Noldor jaws drop).
- For some side-reason I haven't thought of yet but could easily be crafted, Angrist is also given to Curufin at this time.
- Marie’s suggestion (presumes Caranthir is already established as dwarvish ambassador):
- Fingon is travelling East to visit Maedhros at Himring. He passes through the lands of Angrod and Aegnor, and invites them to join him, thinking it will be an opportunity to smooth things over a bit. Angrod declines the invitation; he has no desire to be a guest of the Fëanoreans, subject to more of their disdain. So, we see that the insult about him being a tale-bearer still stings and he hasn't forgotten it. Aegnor, on the other hand, is excited to go on a trip with Fingon and accepts. When Fingon and Aegnor arrive in Himring, they are greeted happily by Maedhros. Hearing of Aegnor's interest in the Dwarvish craftsmanship, he invites him to stick around until the next caravan of dwarvish traders arrive. Fingon perhaps has to return to Hithlum, but Aegnor stays. Then Caranthir arrives with the Dwarves, and Maedhros urges him to be on his *best* behavior around the Son of Finarfin. Caranthir...tries. But he gets a little carried away in his role as the 'expert' at Dwarf stuff and acts obnoxious anyway.
- Result: Telchar finds Aegnor delightful and gifts him Narsil. A sword of flame for the fell fire, etc.
- Faelivrin’s addendum: Send Aredhel as well.
That particular session, for whatever reason, had a *ton* of discussion. I was sifting through hundreds of posts to put everything together, and in the end the summary document alone was 6 full pages long. So, while I am confident that I *did* share the idea with the Execs, I am not as confident that I captured it in the Powerpoint (because I didn't), and it is quite possible they missed it at the time. I did attempt to rectify that during the Session by typing a clarification that Narsil is not meant as a grudging gift but a genuine one, and that Caranthir's rudeness did not preclude a real friendship between Telchar and Aegnor. Someone else chimed in to get Aredhel's name under consideration.
The problem was that Corey Olsen had already had the idea that Narsil would be a
commissioned gift, and so he wanted it to be forged for a particular elf for a reason, not just given as a previously forged sword. He wanted to reject the premise that Telchar would just have the sword to hand over, and so he rejected it for a reason that seemed clear to him. That being said, I think we can translate Mike's idea to the meeting of Telchar, Curufin, and Caranthir, and basically have that be the explanation of how Curufin gets Angrist. Curufin as the smith who answers questions the dwarves have fits, and we'd just have to work in the offer of buying things with Fëanorean lanterns that the hosts wanted to use. I know that is not entirely satisfying and is still frustrating (this entire post is more of a 'here's what did happen' and I have not yet gotten to the 'here's what should happen.')
A more usual example is one in which the slide is meant to allow open-ended discussion, while the notes provide the details/commentary necessary for that discussion.
So, this is an example from the most recent session:
And here are the accompanying notes:
Catch-and-Release Elf Program
- Difficult to find a time in the season when a villain ‘victory’ of making Noldor captive fits the story
- Elves who have been proposed as captives:
- Maedhros
Made captive at the end of Season 3; rescued in Episode 1 of Season 4
- Rog of Gondolin (feel free to rename him Róka or Rhogrin)
If he is an elf of Fingolfin's following, he can be made captive at any time. The audience likely will not know him before his capture. He can escape Angband at any time prior to the Nirnaeth Arnoediad and remain in Fingolfin/Fingon's service, making his way to Gondolin after that battle.
- Orodreth
Made Captive during the Dagor Aglareb (or immediately after). Released prior to the Dagor Bragollach (so, sometime in Season 4 or 5). Commands Minas Tirith during the Dagor Bragollach.
- Ecthelion of Gondolin
Ecthelion needs to be with Turgon in the initial move to Gondolin at the end of Season 4. If he is made captive at any point, it needs to be very early and he should escape almost immediately. Probably better to show minions of Angband attempting to capture him, but failing. This is the elf who kills Gothmog; he's not easy to make captive.
- (Unnamed) Brother of Penlod of Gondolin
Penlod's (invented) brother could be captured at any time prior to the move to Gondolin in Season 4. He will never escape from Angband, and remains a prisoner there throughout the rest of the First Age. Penlod rules two houses in Gondolin; one he is 'holding' in the vain hope of his brother's return.
- Eldalotë [Edhellos] wife of Angrod
We need to invent a story for her to know what her timeline would be. Presumably, she is one of the elves intentionally released by Sauron because he has a psychic hold on her. Her betrayal/compromising situation will occur prior to the Dagor Bragollach in Season 5 (right?)
- Gelmir of Nargothrond
Captured during the Battle of Sudden Flame; killed in captivity at the start of the Battle of Unnumbered Tears
- Gwindor of Nargothrond
Captured during the Unnumbered Tears; escapes prior to meeting Túrin
- Gimli the Blind
Gnome/Noldo who was prisoner in Tol in Gaurhoth. Of course we would like to change his name... (Gimglir? Gimriol?) Presumably made captive sometime after the Battle of Sudden Flame; freed by Lúthien and Huan when they take down the Tower.
- We have to be careful not to make Angband a revolving door, where captives escape all the time. Elves sometimes have to die or stay captive.
- Sauron’s intention is to let some go when they are enthralled/broken, but he might perhaps allow them to ‘escape’ with others who were not broken to allow them to blend in.
- This starts in earnest after the Dagor Aglareb, but some of the elves might not escape until much later. It takes a long while for the elves to catch on that the returned captives cannot always be trusted.
- Gondolin elves can’t be made captive once they are in Gondolin.
- Orodreth as former captive would have a unique relationship with Gwindor. We could contrast his bravery in the skirmish where he is made captive with his later timidity as a result of his captivity. Cellardur is opposed to having Orodreth made captive at all, and wants him to just be naturally weak without any external cause.
- If Eldalotë is not a traitor deceived by Sauron, then we need to figure out some other story/role for her or just delete her
I picked this as a 'typical' example for a few reasons. One, I figured it would be fresh in people's minds (unlike something from last season). Secondly, the slide just has a list of elf names with no context or reason for their inclusion...but the notes include those details. And thirdly...Corey Olsen did specifically mention the detail of Rog's story (being an elf in Fingolfin's host who only goes to Gondolin after the Unnumbered Tears) that is explained in the notes during the Session.
But also I think this illustrates how the discussions go. Corey Olsen went through the list of names provided, explained again how he needed one named elf in each 'category', and then rejected the names he found inappropriate and solicited new suggestions to fill the gaps. It's rather significant to note that he was completely willing to reject Ecthelion, though, as you recall, that idea was the Hosts' in the first place, for the role of 'elf who escapes under his own power.' But he thought Rog was a better idea, so went with it.
Now, the disadvantage of picking such a recent example is that people likely have feelings and opinions about the content of that discussion. So...save that for elsewhere! [I am certainly
not inviting a discussion of which elves should be made captive on this thread!]
Hopefully, these examples give some context as to how the process is meant to work as we continue to discuss what we would like the situation to be moving forward. Obviously, this all depends on me giving myself enough time to go through the discussions we have here, pull everyone's ideas together, and then generate summary content that the Hosts can use during their discussions.
TBC...