Ange1e4e5
Well-Known Member
Unless someone misses it in the editing process (Game of Thrones shout-out)I think it sounds like perfect extra material for a blooper special.
Unless someone misses it in the editing process (Game of Thrones shout-out)I think it sounds like perfect extra material for a blooper special.
I don't know what -- it would not be in character for Finrod to pull it out of a drawer to fondle it or show it off to visitors. He brought treasure out of Valinor only to remind himself of home, not because he likes fondling jewels.There are certainly things we can do to remind the audience of the Nauglamir. For example, we are going to see Nargothrond during the Beren and Luthien season, as well as during Turin's season.
I can't agree. What Christopher Tolkien wrote in the 1977 Silmarillion is not a compression of the Wanderings of Hurin. It is a wholesale replacement, which leaves out important events. The 1977 Silm makes no mention at all of the entire civil war that destroyed Brethil. It doesn't mention Hurin's companions at all. And it has an old man who needs a staff to walk, suddenly become strong enough to dig a grave, bury Morwen, and kill Mim without any assistance at all. That is awkward and unexplained.I don't find the Silmarillion story awkward at all. It seems to make perfect sense to me. Even the compression of the Wanderings of Hurin in the Silmarillion seems to make perfect sense to me, and I imagine plenty of other Silmarillion readers. But I don't think that following the Silmarillion when it comes to the Nauglamir is in any way the same as avoiding telling the Wanderings. Therefore there is no need to alter the origin of the Nauglamir as written in the Silmarillion.
I've always thought of magic as being imbued into items by the will and thoughts of the maker. I think of the description of the "magic" cloaks of Lorien - the Elves put thoughts of all the things and places they love into it while making it.But, this is magic we're dealing with. There needn't be any reason the anti-balrog magic need be imparted at the time an item is made. It can be applied after.
Except that Glaurung is described as attacking the eastern front by Maglor’s Gap and destroying all the land between the arms of Gelion, while Aegnor will be in Dorthonion.
This too. He's a King of Dorthonion, and he should die (trying to) defend the place where Andreth lives. If he leaves Dorthonion he's abandoning her even more.No. He looks derelict in his duty to protect his lands in Dorthonion if he’s halfway across Beleriand; Dorthonion is one of the first places hit in the Dagor Bragollach.
The proposal for Angrod’s death came about because the Balrogs are going to be present at the Dagor Aglareb (no reason to leave them out) and someone has to die to follow our rule of the Balrogs being hero-killers. Since Angrod’s role is all but ended at this point until his demise in the Dagor Bragollach, he’s the sacrificial lion. We tried to change the Hosts’ minds, but to no avail.First of all, please do not kill off Angrod in the Dagor Aglareb! He should stay alive until the Dagor Bragollach. I can't understand where this proposal came from, it doesn't make any sense to me.
I don't know what -- it would not be in character for Finrod to pull it out of a drawer to fondle it or show it off to visitors. He brought treasure out of Valinor only to remind himself of home, not because he likes fondling jewels.
I can't agree. What Christopher Tolkien wrote in the 1977 Silmarillion is not a compression of the Wanderings of Hurin. It is a wholesale replacement, which leaves out important events. The 1977 Silm makes no mention at all of the entire civil war that destroyed Brethil. It doesn't mention Hurin's companions at all. And it has an old man who needs a staff to walk, suddenly become strong enough to dig a grave, bury Morwen, and kill Mim without any assistance at all. That is awkward and unexplained.
I don't want to leave out the companions of Hurin, or the war in Brethil.
Azaghal isn’t slain until the Nirnaeth Arnoediad.I've always thought of magic as being imbued into items by the will and thoughts of the maker. I think of the description of the "magic" cloaks of Lorien - the Elves put thoughts of all the things and places they love into it while making it.
Exactly. Glaurung can't rampage in East Beleriand and slay Azaghal if he's over in Dorthonion.
This too. He's a King of Dorthonion, and he should die (trying to) defend the place where Andreth lives. If he leaves Dorthonion he's abandoning her even more.
I would like Aegnor to at least fight a Balrog, if not kill one. But please, please, don't kill Angrod in the Dagor Aglareb. Please convey to the Hosts that I'm really very unhappy by this decision, I think it's awful. I cannot understand why Angrod's character arc is being completely rewritten and messed up like this. I can't understand why Tolkien's ideas for his characters' arcs are considered so worthless that they have to be torn down and rewritten from scratch. SilmFilm should show some respect for Tolkien's ideas about his own characters and plots.
Rog isn’t killed in the Dagor Aglareb, he’s captured. And Edhellos is killed at this point.So killing Edhellos and Rog in the Dagor Aglareb was vetoed? Why? Were those two characters cut out of the story?
I'm really sick and tired of the most fundamental parts of plots and character arcs being rewritten with this attitude that Tolkien is a worthless hack and his ideas are all garbage.
Corey said that Morgoth would look stupid for not deploying the Balrogs if he intended to crush the Elves at Dagor Aglareb and the Noldor would also look stupid for believing that they won a big victory with the Balrogs not present.So killing Edhellos and capturing Rog in the Dagor Aglareb was vetoed? Why? Were those two characters cut out of the story?
Morgoth was only testing the Elves at Dagor Aglareb, that's the whole reason they won. He has no reason to bring out Balrogs while testing his Orcs. Is Morgoth's entire long-term strategy being thrown in the toilet and replaced with mindless Hulk Smash!! Hollywood carnage? Is this adaptation being written for four-year olds?
Obviously, if Tolkien meant for the Balrogs to be in the Dagor Aglareb, he would have mentioned them and showed them unequivocally defeating the Elves. The very fact that the Elves won the battle at all shows that the lack of mention of Balrogs was deliberate.
I'm really sick and tired of the most fundamental parts of plots and character arcs being rewritten with this attitude that Tolkien is a worthless hack and his ideas are all idiotic garbage to be purged. If the Hosts have no respect for Tolkien as an author and despise his ideas as garbage, then they shouldn't be making adaptations of his work.
It is also plainly stated that at this time Morgoth perceived that "Orcs unaided" could not defeat the Elves.Now Morgoth, believing the report of his spies that the lords of the Noldor were wandering abroad with little thought of war, made trial of the strength and watchfulness of his enemies.
"Orcs unaided" does not by any means signify "Seven Balrogs and some Orcs". It clearly means "Orcs, without the aid of anything bigger." There is no way for "Orcs unaided" to signify "Seven Balrogs" through any application of the English language. That is not how English works.for Morgoth perceived now that the Orcs unaided were no match for the Noldor
Wasn’t in the books that Morgoth was testing them?We made a lot of similar arguments during the several hours of discussion surrounding these events. Ultimately, they were not found compelling by them. As it stands, per their decision, the current script outline for E9 has balrogs at the battle, Angrod and Edhellos being killed, and Rhogrin getting captured.
It was, and this was brought to the hosts' attention. They did not find this sufficiently compelling.Wasn’t in the books that Morgoth was testing them?