Haerangil
Well-Known Member
Indeed!the published silmarillion map has no longitudinal scale
If i adapt beleriand to the lotr map i'd get a Tumladen of roughly 17 miles in diameter...
We cannot always trust Karen wynn-fonstadts maps, but she also has tumladen an oval valley of
14-15 miles at the widest point.
Some other maps give the width of the vale as 21 and more miles...
I guess i'd go with a round, volcano-like vale of 17 miles in diameter... so tumladen would be a place of ca 230 squaremiles
kwf makes gondolin a place of ca. 95 squaremiles... so there's a contradiction here.
If gondolin has about 120.000 inhabitants a size of 70 squaremiles seems reasonable, so gondolin occupies roughly one thirdth of the entire vale of tumladen... most of the outer area would be a large agricultural area... so i guess there's little space to hunt or explore to start with, though i might imagine that turgon has a small forest as a hunting-preserve somewhere... maybe 2000 squaremiles and a diameter of ca. 50 miles for entire tumladen would be more reasonable?
On the other hand... antique yinxu had ca 120000 inhabitants on ca. 19 squaremiles... which would fit far better to a vale of tumladen which has ca. 60 squaremiles at a diameter of ca 9 miles? I don't know...
Maybe we should use the midpoint and say: tumladen 100 squaremiles, gondolin 30 squaremiles?
that would be ca 11miles in diameter which again is close to fonstadts 14-15 miles...
Or we stay with a diameter of 17 miles, making an area of ca 230 squaremiles of which one quarter ,ca.60 squaremiles, are occupied by gondolin? That would maybe be closest to what we can conclude from jrrts maps and drawings... but on the other hand i mean... looking at his sketch, i could imagine that his gondolin might be about less than 1 mile in diameter... that could mean an area of roughly half a squaremile, ... if his gondolin occupies one quarter of the valley that woukd leave us with a vale of only five miles in diameter, an area of roughly 20 squaremiles... that is really small!
Withnan army of 10.000 gondolin must have had at last 10.000 inhsbitants! Small cities of 10.000 inhabitants, if not densely settled might have an area of ca 2 squaremiles... and i still think gondolin could easily have had a population of up to 120000, Turgon would not have led his entire people to battle!
Damn i don't know!
If i adapt beleriand to the lotr map i'd get a Tumladen of roughly 17 miles in diameter...
We cannot always trust Karen wynn-fonstadts maps, but she also has tumladen an oval valley of
14-15 miles at the widest point.
Some other maps give the width of the vale as 21 and more miles...
I guess i'd go with a round, volcano-like vale of 17 miles in diameter... so tumladen would be a place of ca 230 squaremiles
kwf makes gondolin a place of ca. 95 squaremiles... so there's a contradiction here.
If gondolin has about 120.000 inhabitants a size of 70 squaremiles seems reasonable, so gondolin occupies roughly one thirdth of the entire vale of tumladen... most of the outer area would be a large agricultural area... so i guess there's little space to hunt or explore to start with, though i might imagine that turgon has a small forest as a hunting-preserve somewhere... maybe 2000 squaremiles and a diameter of ca. 50 miles for entire tumladen would be more reasonable?
On the other hand... antique yinxu had ca 120000 inhabitants on ca. 19 squaremiles... which would fit far better to a vale of tumladen which has ca. 60 squaremiles at a diameter of ca 9 miles? I don't know...
Maybe we should use the midpoint and say: tumladen 100 squaremiles, gondolin 30 squaremiles?
that would be ca 11miles in diameter which again is close to fonstadts 14-15 miles...
Or we stay with a diameter of 17 miles, making an area of ca 230 squaremiles of which one quarter ,ca.60 squaremiles, are occupied by gondolin? That would maybe be closest to what we can conclude from jrrts maps and drawings... but on the other hand i mean... looking at his sketch, i could imagine that his gondolin might be about less than 1 mile in diameter... that could mean an area of roughly half a squaremile, ... if his gondolin occupies one quarter of the valley that woukd leave us with a vale of only five miles in diameter, an area of roughly 20 squaremiles... that is really small!
Withnan army of 10.000 gondolin must have had at last 10.000 inhsbitants! Small cities of 10.000 inhabitants, if not densely settled might have an area of ca 2 squaremiles... and i still think gondolin could easily have had a population of up to 120000, Turgon would not have led his entire people to battle!
Damn i don't know!
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