Concerns about season 5

[Rhiannon]

The House of Snow?

The House of the Tower of Snow

 

[Ange1e4e5]

And what should happen to her house when Aredhel dies?

 

[Nicholas Palazzo]

And what should happen to her house when Aredhel dies?

By that point, either it's been dissolved, or someone else has been running it for decades.

 

[Rhiannon]

And what should happen to her house when Aredhel dies?

Penlod takes command of it, which is why Penlod will be in command of both the House of the Pillar and the House of the Tower of Snow at the Fall of Gondolin.

 

[Ange1e4e5]

Penlod takes command of it, which is why Penlod will be in command of both the House of the Pillar and the House of the Tower of Snow at the Fall of Gondolin.

Sounds fair.

Am I wrong about what Sauron should be?

 

[MithLuin]

Okay, let's take a look at the storylines in Season 5 that we know about....
What else goes on this list?

Fingolfin

Fortifies Beleriand for the Siege​

Befriends Men - Hador​

Sees the Siege Fail​

Challenges Morgoth and Dies​

​

Aredhel

Grows restless in Gondolin, and feels Turgon is off mission.​

Leaves Gondolin with some guards and travels through Nan Dungortheb​

Hangs out with Fëanoreans (but not the brothers)​

Visits Nan Elmoth​

Marries Eöl​

Has Maeglin​

Returns to Gondolin with Maeglin​

Killed by Eöl​

Aegnor

Defends Dorthonion​

Meets Andreth​

Defends Dorthonion​

Dies in Battle​

​

Finrod

Befriends Bëor​

Tries to make peace between Andreth and Aegnor​

Friend of Dwarves - of Nogrod​

​

Bëor

Leads his people to Beleriand​

Meets Finrod​

Pledges allegiance and moves to Nargothrond​

Dies of old age in his 90s​

​

Haleth

Settles in Caranthir's realm​

Watches family die​

Kills a bunch of orcs​

Rejects Caranthir's offer​

Travels through Nan Dungortheb​

Settles in the Forest of Brethil​

​

Andreth

Lives in Dorthonion​

Meets Aegnor​

Romance!​

Grows old alone as a wise woman​

Dies​

​

Amlach?

Opposes alliance with elves​

Is impersonated​

Seeks alliance with elves​

​

Nogrod?

Seeks to cultivate a relationship with Nargothrond​

Zirak makes the Nauglamir for Finrod​

​

Villains

Catch-and-Release​

Dragon Improvements​

Battle of Sudden Flame​

Duel with Fingolfin​

​

Characters/Groups conspicuously missing a storyline for this Season:

Fëanoreans - play incidental roles in Aredhel's and Haleth's stories (and Amlach's)​

Doriath - ???​

Galadriel and Celeborn - honeymoon in Ossiriand, and then?​

Círdan - ???​

​

 

[Ange1e4e5]

Doriath: Thingol is rather put-out by Men coming into Beleriand, but his racism towards Men will not be fully explored until Beren and Luthien.

Turgon:

Grieved by losing Aredhel
Receives Aredhel and Maeglin
When Aredhel dies, he has Eol executed

 

[MithLuin]

I would say that Turgon is a supporting character in Aredhel's storyline this coming season. He's not going to have an independent storyline of his own, but rather will react to what Aredhel (and Eöl) do. He does have a bit of a cameo at the very end when Fingolfin dies, but mostly...it's Aredhel's story arc we are going to follow.

Season 4 was the Turgon and Finrod show. Season 5 ought to be the Aredhel and Aegnor show, if we do this right.

 

[Rhiannon]

Don't forget about Angrod!
Angrod:
Defends Dorthonion
Potentially knows about Aegnor and Andreth
Defends Dorthonion
Dies in battle with Aegnor

We might also want to show a little of Maeglin in Gondolin after his parents' deaths so that storyline doesn't end there.
Maeglin:
Hears stories of Gondolin from Aredhel
Flees to Gondolin with Aredhel
Saved from Eol by Aredhel
Earns favor of Turgon and the Gondolindrim
Teaches the Gondolindrim about mining and smithcraft
Desires Idril

I think it is also important that we do not forget about Luthien, as she will be a major character in Season 6. We may want to introduce young Beren towards the end of Season 5 as well.

 

[MithLuin]

Angrod ought to be a supporting character in Aegnor's storyline, yes. You'll note that I'm not really focusing on what *every* character is doing, but on what the main characters are doing for the season.

It is true that Maeglin will continue Aredhel's storyline after her death, and likely he'll be our point-of-view character in Gondolin for the remainder of the season.

 

[Rhiannon]

Angrod ought to be a supporting character in Aegnor's storyline, yes. You'll note that I'm not really focusing on what *every* character is doing, but on what the main characters are doing for the season.

It is true that Maeglin will continue Aredhel's storyline after her death, and likely he'll be our point-of-view character in Gondolin for the remainder of the season.

I think we should make sure Fingolfin is a prominent character in Season 5 by having him be the protagonist of one or more episodes before his final duel and/or making sure to frequently check in with his storyline about the siege. One additional thing The Silmarillion mentions he does is pondering an assault on Angband after Men have allied themselves with the Elves and being supported in this only by Angrod and Aegnor.

 

[Rhiannon]

Okay, let's take a look at the storylines in Season 5 that we know about....
What else goes on this list?

Fingolfin

Fortifies Beleriand for the Siege​

Befriends Men - Hador​

Sees the Siege Fail​

Challenges Morgoth and Dies​

​

Aredhel

Grows restless in Gondolin, and feels Turgon is off mission.​

Leaves Gondolin with some guards and travels through Nan Dungortheb​

Hangs out with Fëanoreans (but not the brothers)​

Visits Nan Elmoth​

Marries Eöl​

Has Maeglin​

Returns to Gondolin with Maeglin​

Killed by Eöl​

Aegnor

Defends Dorthonion​

Meets Andreth​

Defends Dorthonion​

Dies in Battle​

​

Finrod

Befriends Bëor​

Tries to make peace between Andreth and Aegnor​

Friend of Dwarves - of Nogrod​

​

Bëor

Leads his people to Beleriand​

Meets Finrod​

Pledges allegiance and moves to Nargothrond​

Dies of old age in his 90s​

​

Haleth

Settles in Caranthir's realm​

Watches family die​

Kills a bunch of orcs​

Rejects Caranthir's offer​

Travels through Nan Dungortheb​

Settles in the Forest of Brethil​

​

Andreth

Lives in Dorthonion​

Meets Aegnor​

Romance!​

Grows old alone as a wise woman​

Dies​

​

Amlach?

Opposes alliance with elves​

Is impersonated​

Seeks alliance with elves​

​

Nogrod?

Seeks to cultivate a relationship with Nargothrond​

Zirak makes the Nauglamir for Finrod​

​

Villains

Catch-and-Release​

Dragon Improvements​

Battle of Sudden Flame​

Duel with Fingolfin​

​

Characters/Groups conspicuously missing a storyline for this Season:

Fëanoreans - play incidental roles in Aredhel's and Haleth's stories (and Amlach's)​

Doriath - ???​

Galadriel and Celeborn - honeymoon in Ossiriand, and then?​

Círdan - ???​

​

I think we should have Galadriel and Celeborn return to Doraith after their honeymoon. Especially since their worries about being exiled from Doriath and being in Thingol's ill favor came to naught at the end of last season, we shouldn't show them staying away from Doriath.

 

[Ange1e4e5]

Don't forget about Angrod!
Angrod:
Defends Dorthonion
Potentially knows about Aegnor and Andreth
Defends Dorthonion
Dies in battle with Aegnor

We might also want to show a little of Maeglin in Gondolin after his parents' deaths so that storyline doesn't end there.
Maeglin:
Hears stories of Gondolin from Aredhel
Flees to Gondolin with Aredhel
Saved from Eol by Aredhel
Earns favor of Turgon and the Gondolindrim
Teaches the Gondolindrim about mining and smithcraft
Desires Idril

I think it is also important that we do not forget about Luthien, as she will be a major character in Season 6. We may want to introduce young Beren towards the end of Season 5 as well.

Wouldn’t the Gondolodrim already know about mining and smithcraft?

 

[Rhiannon]

Wouldn’t the Gondolodrim already know about mining and smithcraft?

They do, but Maeglin has more to teach them:

“But Maeglin prospered and grew great among the Gondolindrim, praised by all, and high in the favour of Turgon; for if he would learn eagerly and swiftly all that he might, he had much also to teach. And he gathered about him all such as had the most bent to smith craft and mining; and he sought in the Echoriath (which are the Encircling Mountains), and found rich lodes of ore and divers metals. Most he prized the hard iron of the mine of Anghabar in the north of the Echoriath, and thence he got a wealth of forged metal and of steel, so that the arms of the Gondolindrim were made ever stronger and more keen; and that stood them in good stead in days to come.”

 

[MithLuin]

Right - Maeglin was trained by Eöl and Dwarves, so he can learn a lot from the Noldor and the Noldor can learn a lot from him.

 

[Ange1e4e5]

I have an idea: how about Sauron luring Eilinel (and any other of Gorlim’s family if he has any) away, then have Thuringwethil take the role of the phantom that takes Eilinel’s form?

 

[Octoburn]

I have an idea: how about Sauron luring Eilinel (and any other of Gorlim’s family if he has any) away, then have Thuringwethil take the role of the phantom that takes Eilinel’s form?

I'm... Not fond of this idea. And I don't know why. Just doesn't feel right to me.

 

[Ange1e4e5]

I'm... Not fond of this idea. And I don't know why. Just doesn't feel right to me.

Why not? It works with how Sauron ensnared Edhellos.

 

[Rhiannon]

Why not? It works with how Sauron ensnared Edhellos.

Not exactly. What Sauron did with Edhellos was impersonate her husband and pretend to be captured alongside her. He had studied Angrod's personality enough beforehand to know how to behave like Angrod well enough to fool Angrod's wife for several days until he got the information he needed out of her. There was not really any ensnaring since she was already captured; Sauron was deceiving her to get information.

Gorlim sees something he thinks is his wife one of the times he visits their old house. He does not really interact with the fake Eilinel because Sauron's forces seize him as soon as he cries out for her. While we could show Thuringwethil pretending to be Eilinel, I am not sure there is a need to have someone impersonate her. I also kind of like fake Eilinel being a conjured phantom rather than someone else because it demonstrates more of Sauron's power (creating external images in addition to transforming his own image), and I think it would be more powerful for Gorlim to learn that his wife was never there at all.

 

[Octoburn]

Not exactly. What Sauron did with Edhellos was impersonate her husband and pretend to be captured alongside her. He had studied Angrod's personality enough beforehand to know how to behave like Angrod well enough to fool Angrod's wife for several days until he got the information he needed out of her. There was not really any ensnaring since she was already captured; Sauron was deceiving her to get information.

Gorlim sees something he thinks is his wife one of the times he visits their old house. He does not really interact with the fake Eilinel because Sauron's forces seize him as soon as he cries out for her. While we could show Thuringwethil pretending to be Eilinel, I am not sure there is a need to have someone impersonate her. I also kind of like fake Eilinel being a conjured phantom rather than someone else because it demonstrates more of Sauron's power (creating external images in addition to transforming his own image), and I think it would be more powerful for Gorlim to learn that his wife was never there at all.

This. Mostly.

I think what I dislike is the lack of ambiguity. If we know that Eilinel is captured or dead, there is no weight behind Sauron's words when he promises to reunite Gorlim with her, and when he tells her that she is dead.

I mean, this really should happen during or right after Bragollach, so I don't think it would really help Sauron's story when this is a section he will actually be very busy.

WHAT IF... so, we will have the Easterlings in close proximity to Dorthonion, so when her people begin to flee, she kind of gets lost in the woods, and then she stumbles into someone she knows,but we don't know who it is (don't see them) or it's an Easterlings we set up earlier as someone she is acquainted with. Then, we don't see her again until the Gorlim episode.

This would work both to show her disappearance, as well as setting up the corruption of the Easterlings, though it won't be revealed fully until Nirnaeth. Is that too early to start showing that? Especially if we hint that Sauron is corrupting men in S5?