Session 5-01: Pre-production

So for our storylines, we have:
  • The coming of Men into Beleriand and the introduction of non-violent death into Elvish society
  • Pertaining to the above:
  • Beor meets Finrod
  • Bereg and not!Amlach dissenting in Council of 368 FA
  • Assault on the Haladin stockade of 375 where Haleth comes to the front of history
  • The settling of Men: the House of Beor in Ladros, the Haladin in Brethil and the House of Hador in Dor-Lomin
  • Of Aredhel, her death and what Maeglin gives to Gondolin
  • Aegnor and Andreth
  • The Dagor Bragollach and the Fall of Fingolfin
Another storyline is the making and gifting of the Nauglamir. This could be its own storyline, or it could be tied in with something else, like Eol or the Feanorians visiting the Dwarves. I think it should happen fairly early in the season.
 
Another storyline is the making and gifting of the Nauglamir. This could be its own storyline, or it could be tied in with something else, like Eol or the Feanorians visiting the Dwarves. I think it should happen fairly early in the season.
We could have a smith working on it in Belegost, with a line about the "Hewer of Caves", as an epitath of Finrod's.
 
I believe the plan was for it to be made by Dwarves from Nogrod.
What I mean is that for whichever Dwarven Kingdom we have making objects like Narsil, Angrist, and the Dragon-Helm, the other would be making the Nauglamir. Call it specialization.
 
Another storyline is the making and gifting of the Nauglamir. This could be its own storyline, or it could be tied in with something else, like Eol or the Feanorians visiting the Dwarves. I think it should happen fairly early in the season.
So maybe this doesn’t have to be a storyline. But probably the Nauglamir would be a sort of Chekhov’s Gun sitting in Finrod’s chambers in Nargothrond until Hurin finds it during his wanderings? How thorough would Thingol police Beleriand for jewels?
 
So maybe this doesn’t have to be a storyline. But probably the Nauglamir would be a sort of Chekhov’s Gun sitting in Finrod’s chambers in Nargothrond until Hurin finds it during his wanderings? How thorough would Thingol police Beleriand for jewels?
We don't necessarily need to tell the full story of its making and being gifted, but it's the Nauglamir. We should definitely show Finrod wearing it and convey that it is the greatest work of the Dwarves and made with jewels from Valinor. That way, when Hurin finds it, it will be more than just an especially pretty necklace to the audience.

There's precedent in Season 4 of SilmFilm for showing the creation of objects (Narsil and the Dragon helm) that won't be significant until later, so if we have the space for some scenes about the Nauglamir, I don't see any reason not to include it.

Thingol won't be policing Beleriand for jewels.
 
Do we have some small Dwarf side storylines planned by the by? I feel we should involve the dwarves a bit more than just once in a while "oh look they made us this artifact. Otherwise I think in a long form story like this it would stand out much more than in a movie if they're really underdeveloped as a civilisation... (underdeveloped narratively I mean)
 
Do we have some small Dwarf side storylines planned by the by? I feel we should involve the dwarves a bit more than just once in a while "oh look they made us this artifact. Otherwise I think in a long form story like this it would stand out much more than in a movie if they're really underdeveloped as a civilisation... (underdeveloped narratively I mean)
We’ve had a couple per season in years past, but I’m not sure how this would work as the action this season seems to be more streamlined around two main storylines: Aredhel and the Coming of Men into the West.
 
Do we have some small Dwarf side storylines planned by the by? I feel we should involve the dwarves a bit more than just once in a while "oh look they made us this artifact. Otherwise I think in a long form story like this it would stand out much more than in a movie if they're really underdeveloped as a civilisation... (underdeveloped narratively I mean)
There aren’t that many mentions of Dwarves in the book around the time period of Season 5, but that doesn’t mean we can’t have storylines about them. We will just have to largely invent those storylines.

So, what do we want to do with the Dwarves? Does anyone have an idea for a specific Dwarf character they would like to invent? Is there a particular aspect of their culture we would like to showcase? What are relations like between Nogrod and Belegost? Do we want to show some kind of change in their views or relations with other races? Will the villains try to interact with the Dwarves?

We can have Dwarf-only storylines, or we could tie their storylines to some of the groups that are receiving less focus this season, like the Fëanorians or the Elves from Doriath.
 
Well, as the Men come into the West, they have to cross through the Dwarves to get there. The Dwarves would likely control the nature of any encounters, so how would the Dwarves wish to do this? Stay hidden and watch? Make tentative diplomatic overtures? Line the path with armed warriors?
 
Well, as the Men come into the West, they have to cross through the Dwarves to get there. The Dwarves would likely control the nature of any encounters, so how would the Dwarves wish to do this? Stay hidden and watch? Make tentative diplomatic overtures? Line the path with armed warriors?
It’s certainly possible, the databases say that Men have encountered Dwarves and learned some Khuzdul by the time they enter Beleriand.
 
The Dwarves would likely control the nature of any encounters, so how would the Dwarves wish to do this?

Yes. I think we don't have to invent big plots (except if something develops organically), but I can't imagine that there were no contact points at all between dwarves and the other children of Illuvatar in that time. Between elves and men, there aren't that many contact points either, but it is a very important subject how they interact & connect. Some of the biggest stories in all of Éas history are about that topic. Now I'm not suggesting that we need to have lots and lots of man-dwarf romance stories on-screen to compensate (although; interesting question if that happens at all in the thousands of years, and if yes if it is as big of a deal for the communities in question as a beren & luthien story) but I'd like to have a hypothetical viewer be aware of the dwarves and see some of their interactions at the edges of our "narrative focus", even if at the moment they don't actively enter into it.

So yes, who would that be? We have of course the Longbeards in Khazad-Dûm, the Iron Hills and the Grey Mountains. The Firebeards and the Broadbeams live Belegost and Nogrod, but it's not clear if they're separated, live both in both cities or if belegost is longbeardish after all and they both live primarily in Nogrod. (there could be some twin-city drama there in any case, rivalry, allyship, etc.) There are dwarves in the east (the remaining 4 tribes, somewhere vaguely in Rhûn, but tbh, just outside the map, they might as well be in Harad) which we could bring up whenever we get to looking at the east & south (blue wizard storylines anyone? :cool:) They could be partly corrupted, partly one of the sturdiest parts of the "resistance" against Saurons activities in the east (this is just me daydreaming) .
 
Yes. I think we don't have to invent big plots (except if something develops organically), but I can't imagine that there were no contact points at all between dwarves and the other children of Illuvatar in that time. Between elves and men, there aren't that many contact points either, but it is a very important subject how they interact & connect. Some of the biggest stories in all of Éas history are about that topic. Now I'm not suggesting that we need to have lots and lots of man-dwarf romance stories on-screen to compensate (although; interesting question if that happens at all in the thousands of years, and if yes if it is as big of a deal for the communities in question as a beren & luthien story) but I'd like to have a hypothetical viewer be aware of the dwarves and see some of their interactions at the edges of our "narrative focus", even if at the moment they don't actively enter into it.

So yes, who would that be? We have of course the Longbeards in Khazad-Dûm, the Iron Hills and the Grey Mountains. The Firebeards and the Broadbeams live Belegost and Nogrod, but it's not clear if they're separated, live both in both cities or if belegost is longbeardish after all and they both live primarily in Nogrod. (there could be some twin-city drama there in any case, rivalry, allyship, etc.) There are dwarves in the east (the remaining 4 tribes, somewhere vaguely in Rhûn, but tbh, just outside the map, they might as well be in Harad) which we could bring up whenever we get to looking at the east & south (blue wizard storylines anyone? :cool:) They could be partly corrupted, partly one of the sturdiest parts of the "resistance" against Saurons activities in the east (this is just me daydreaming) .
Should we stray too far from Beleriand?
 
I feel like our conduits to the East and South would be Morgoth and Sauron (or lieutenants of theirs). We have always followed them with the story in SilmFilm, not always the same amount, but still. But once we've "arrived" in the East/South, we could very well attach to a couple of places or people that then could represent those places in occasional little stories, if we wanted to/if it fits into the larger story arc. An other obvious bit of connective tissue would be the blue wizards & their shenanigans. Also I feel like men would move more across the world as their cultures wax & wane, so over 1000s of years you'd have to see a couple of connections between the larger regions.
 
I feel like our conduits to the East and South would be Morgoth and Sauron (or lieutenants of theirs). We have always followed them with the story in SilmFilm, not always the same amount, but still. But once we've "arrived" in the East/South, we could very well attach to a couple of places or people that then could represent those places in occasional little stories, if we wanted to/if it fits into the larger story arc. An other obvious bit of connective tissue would be the blue wizards & their shenanigans. Also I feel like men would move more across the world as their cultures wax & wane, so over 1000s of years you'd have to see a couple of connections between the larger regions.
What do you mean, arrived in the East/South?
 
I'm not convinced that the Men would have to pass through lands controlled by the Dwarves to get into Beleriand. They would most probably just journey south of the Blue Mts. Nogrod and Belegost are quite a long way away.
2705
 
I'm not convinced that the Men would have to pass through lands controlled by the Dwarves to get into Beleriand. They would most probably just journey south of the Blue Mts. Nogrod and Belegost are quite a long way away.
View attachment 2705
Not to be Petty, but I'm 99% sure that it is canon that Finrod discovered them near the river Thalos, which is just south of the Dwarf Road. They would have had to cross nearly all of Ossiriand without being attacked by the green elves before coming there.
 
Not to be Petty, but I'm 99% sure that it is canon that Finrod discovered them near the river Thalos, which is just south of the Dwarf Road. They would have had to cross nearly all of Ossiriand without being attacked by the green elves before coming there.
I thought the Green Elves fled, not attacked.
 
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