Script Discussion S05E12

I say Finrod arrives with reinforcements in act III or IV, too late to save his brothers.

For Episode 13 as a refresher, how about we move east to west per se, showing the devastation wrought by Glaurung; none of the Sons of Fëanor are dead, but as we move westward the pines of Dorthonion will still be on fire and pans over the dead Angrod, Aegnor, and Bregolas.

In the outline above, Finrod does not arrive to the battle until the fourth act, as you suggest.

One thing we used as a device for establishing geography and battle state in E12 was an "eagle's eye view". This will likely continue through E13, as it will make Thorondor's sudden appearance at the end a bit less out of nowhere.
 
Normally, there would be a waiting period before a screenwriter for an episode was announced. But since I've elected to pen the final two episodes of the script, I'm jumping ahead to give myself some much-needed extra time.

In the interest of transparency and collaboration, I've taken the liberty of creating a "Work in Progress" script document, merging it for now with the Script Outline so that one can see the result of the outline alongside the developing screenplay. Thus far, there is only about a scene and a half written in there, but I welcome comments as I go. I may not be able to slow down to answer every comment before I've completed a first draft, but my hope is that comments and suggesions can help guide the process. Here's the link: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_2lyJbTg7X3ZdbrXq3GTJ6F2XPLOmGt6zvJLflD44_A/edit?usp=sharing
 
I like how Aegnor seemingly does not want to recognize Andreth, that is so e dire scene.
I was a bit surprised Gorgol has not yet shown up or been mentioned, he would be the Captain to lead the troops into dorthonion/Ladros, wouldn't he?

It seems i must have missed so e episodes, are they somewhere and i have just overlooked them?
 
I like how Aegnor seemingly does not want to recognize Andreth, that is so e dire scene.
I was a bit surprised Gorgol has not yet shown up or been mentioned, he would be the Captain to lead the troops into dorthonion/Ladros, wouldn't he?

It seems i must have missed so e episodes, are they somewhere and i have just overlooked them?

At this time, this story is being told from the Elvish point of view, so while Gorgol may be present in the attack on Dorthonion, we likely would not get any dialogue naming him.
 
As far as I recall, Tolkien did not give us any details concerning Emeldir's death. We know that she led the refugees away from the Dagor Bragollach, and then...that's it. We don't hear about her again. She would be roughly 69 years old at the time of the Nirnaeth, so it is certainly reasonable that she would be alive, and outlive Rian. If we want her to, anyway....
 
The more done with Emeldir the better IMO. In a modern adaptation, sticking to her book depiction is obviously problematic, so any expansion of her story and character I think is a big plus. And of course, helps inform the characterisation of key future heroes
 
The more done with Emeldir the better IMO. In a modern adaptation, sticking to her book depiction is obviously problematic, so any expansion of her story and character I think is a big plus. And of course, helps inform the characterisation of key future heroes
We (as in Silm Film) have Emeldir bringing Narsil to Brethil, but we’re not really going to have scenes in Brethil until Turin shows up there after his wild goose chase to Dor-Lomin. After the Dagor Bragollach and the skirmish between the Haladin and the Orcs (the one where Beleg lends a hand and Hurin and Huor get a lift to Gondolin) the only points where we might see Brethil are surrounding the Nirnaeth since Haldir might be part of the planning and when word is received that Haldir was KIA in the Nirnaeth, where Gloredhel dies of grief.
 
Oh yes, I’m aware of this. I just mean, in future, if we can ever find a place to come back to her, I’d be in favour
 
What I'm saying is that there aren't many opportunities coming up; we'd have to shoehorn her in.

I get ya. Fair enough. It was just cos folks were discussing her storyline. Ah well

EDIT: There is a prime spot for her in next season of course.
 
The more done with Emeldir the better IMO. In a modern adaptation, sticking to her book depiction is obviously problematic

Can you elaborate on this? There appears to be something I'm missing here. I'd like to rectify that if I can, as I've already written one scene in which Emeldir is featured, and have at least one more to write.
 
Oh, I meant as written by Tolkien. Sorry for lacking clarity.
 
Is the problematic part that he does not follow up on her story after she leads the refugees from Dorthonion to the Forest of Brethil? Or something else? Because I am fine with adding more to her story, but am not overly bothered that the only time she appears in the annals is the one time she did something extraordinary.
 
It’s more her epithet being the Manhearted and her character being defined by her being ‘as good as a man’ in combat. She could easily fall into the trope of being a ‘badass’ defined by traditionally masculine terms. Her one significant character trait in the book is how admirable she is due to how much like a man she is. That’s the issue I have with the epithet. The interesting story element is that of course, most people don’t pick their own epithet and so we don’t know how she felt about being defined by those terms. But I was more talking about the book as I’ve not read script portrays of her so far so was not a criticism.

Her role as a powerful woman in a larger male society and the power of voice, bears potential similarities to Luthien (voice being literal the latter’s her case). I’m fairly certain the route from Menegroth to Tol-In-ghauroth would lead via Brethil and I think there’s potential if we did want to explore those themes in the later series to have a conversation between these two heroic women, a passing of the baton and encouragement to use one’s voice to not only heal but to also protect and fight back o think has interest connotations. And of course we could potentially have Beren reunited with his long missing mother. But that’s a later conversation
 
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There are, of course, many possible ways to interpret 'man-hearted'. If, for instance, many of the women are weeping and upset during the departure from Ladros and the sundering of their families...and yet she is remaining calm and collected, organizing the departure of the refugees...that can be striking and noteworthy. That behavior can stand out, and someone looking at it from the outside could wonder about her emotions or apparent lack of feeling over bidding farewell to her husband and son as they prepare for battle. We don't necessarily have to use the epithet in dialogue, but I think that 'man-hearted' is preferable to 'cold-hearted' in a case like this. Also, we have retained her as Adanel's granddaughter, so she has leadership in her family as much as her husband does. By 'incubating' the House of Bëor in Nargothrond for several generations, we've definitely altered their power dynamics and allowed them to have different leadership styles than they would have at Estolad or in Ladros. So, our version of the House of Bëor is not exactly opposed to women in leadership positions, and Emeldir and Andreth leading the refugees should seem quite natural, though obviously also a result of circumstances.
 
According to the book, Luthien is intercepted by Celegorm, Curufin, and Huan on the western eaves of Doriath and taken from there to Nargothrond. Of course this could be moved to Brethil if we wanted to but I'm not sure how much Luthien would want to make a pit stop in Brethil to talk to Emeldir if her intent is to go to Tol-in-Gaurhoth asap.
 
It’s more her epithet being the Manhanded and her character being defined by her being ‘as good as a man’ in combat. She could easily fall into the trope of being a ‘badass’ defined by traditionally masculine terms. Her one significant character trait in the book is how admirable she is due to how much like a man she is. That’s the issue I have with the epithet. The interesting story element is that of course, most people don’t pick their own epithet and so we don’t know how she felt about being defined by those terms. But I was more talking about the book as I’ve not read script portrays of her so far so was not a criticism.

I was pretty sure you were referring to the story as written by Tolkien. And while the way that Emeldir is described in the text might seem problematic if it were happening in modern context, in the context of the culture of which she is a part, it likely merely describes the reality of how she is viewed. A woman in a pre-modern culture might even take pride in the epithet "man-hearted". We have taken great care to show both male and female characters exhibiting strength in ways that are both stereotypically masculine and feminine. Sometimes the same character shows both qualities. I'm not sure that we need to shy away from the idea that a culture like the Beorians might call a woman who is unusually tough and brave "man-hearted".

That said, the term has not shown itself in this script thus far.
 
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