A real world equivalent for "Ranger"

Lincoln Alpern

Lincoln Alpern

Active Member
In the latest recording session, Corey opined the word "ranger" as applied to the Dunedain is most comparable to the "g" often used for Romani peoples and frequently considered a slur, and that were the people of Bree to be transported to present day Earth, their use of the word "ranger" would be similarly criticized and rejected in polite company. This logic doesn't ring true to me.

My understanding for why the "g" word is considered offensive and taboo, along with similar words for other marginalized peoples, is that they have a close association with long histories of persecution. I don't know if there are any Latin slurs for Christians or Jews from circa 2nd or 3rd century Rome, CE, but that seems to be a more accurate parallel.

To my knowledge, the Dunedain have no particular history of persecution - except, I suppose, by Sauron, but in that they're hardly unique. While I can imagine them suffering being cussed out, being spat upon, and perhaps having to dodge the odd hurled stone from Bree-landers or similar folk, I can't conceive of them suffering anything close to the kind of abuse experienced by Romani peoples or monotheists under the Roman Republic and Empire at the hands of simple townsfolk. Indeed, Aragorn implies as much, with his characterization of the Bree-landers at the Council of Elrond, using descriptions we would probably consider patronizing from a modern perspective, and speaking of them in a way that is almost indulgent.

I preferred @ForthDauntless3's suggestion of "vagabonds" as an equivalent term, but perhaps that isn't strong enough. We're looking for a word that applies to a group of people who are historically distrusted and looked down upon, and may at times be shunned, but haven't been historically persecuted per se.

I admit I'm drawing a blank here. I know there's a slightly rude word for East Germans that came into parlance after the Berlin Wall fell thirty years ago - I'm only passingly familiar with that situation, though, and what little I do know indicates it's a shaky comparison at best.

Can anyone else here come up with a closer parallel for the word "ranger" as the Bree-landers use it?
 
Hi Lincoln,

I am somewhat dubious about the interpretation of 'Rangers' as a pejorative term. It might have come to have a pejorative connotation in Bree, but it does not have such in English. I would suggest that 'wanderer' or 'rover' are near synonyms for one meaning of 'ranger' in English. 'Rover' sometimes has a slightly pejorative cast, perhaps when applied to pirates. 'Wanderer', however, is the closest JRRT gives us as a synonym for 'Ranger', when in Appendix A he says, "When the kingdom ended the Dunedain passed into the shadows and became a secret and wandering people."

The meaning of 'Ranger' as a military scouting and unconventional warfare force, or as protectors of forests and woodlands, was thought by the class to have derived from JRRT's use of the word to designate the Dunedain of Eriador. However, this usage greatly pre-dates JRRT. The first recorded use of 'Ranger' in English is from the 14th century. Early usage often was as a title denoting a keeper of a royal forest, appointed by the king to protect the forest resources. The term was also used to designate formations of scouting soldiers long before JRRT's time. Most famous were 'Roger's Rangers', raised in New Hampshire to scout for the British Army in the French and Indian (Seven Years) war. The initial militia unit was quickly incorporated into the British army and the number of companies expanded to more than a dozen. There were previous scouting and frontier militias in North America calling themselves 'Rangers', but Robert Rogers company and his widely circulated manual, "Rules of Ranging", made the appellation popular and used by subsequent Canadian and American military units.
 
I'll just make it three who don't agree that Ranger was used as an insult. I think the Rangers used the term themselves. That the Bree folk, who have lived in one place since forever, distrust them because they travel rather than having permanent home, says more about the Bree folk than the Rangers. They do use the nickname "Strider" as a perjorative, but that's largely his doing. He has chosen to appear that way to them. But I also don't think he's hiding his identity in general - why would the name Aragorn son of Arathorn make anyone think of the lost line of kings? It's been how many generations?
 
The German translation used "Waldläufer" which is basically a Woodwalker or Woodrunner and is used for... well a wanderer in the wild, hunter, woodsman, herb-gatherer, guide... you get the picture.

I also want to point put... nowadays theres the g-word, and in germany the Z-word, but that term wasn't always used in a deragatory and negative way, and not only for romani people.It was in my childhood applied to my own family by my grandfather, which is ethnically german, for we travelled in a caravan... similar to what i belive they call travellers or tinkers in the UK, i still feel sad about people nowadays reducing it to a z-word.
 
A Ranger rover came over the hill,
And down to Rivendell so shady;
He whistled and he sang,
Till the greenwoods rang,
And he won the heart of a lady.
...

He's no Ranger my father said she,
But lord of wide lands all over,
And I will stay till my dying day,
With my whistling Ranger rover.

Adapted from "Gypsy Rover", by Dublin songwriter Leo Maguire in 1950s, but based on much older folk songs from the Scottish Borders and Ireland.
 
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Thanks for the comments, everyone.

To be clear, I'm not the one in need of convincing. My post was made in response to Corey's assertions in last week's class (echoing comments he's made previously) that the Bree-folks' use of "Ranger" was probably a pejorative and insulting term, and characterizing it as analogous as the "g" word for Romani peoples. My post was arguing that even if "Ranger" is a pejorative as Corey believes, the comparison doesn't hold up for me.

Personally, I'm less convinced than Corey that "Ranger" is a derogatory term in Middle-earth in general - as opposed to just among the Bree-folk - but I've also made less attempt to analyze its use in the text closely and see if and how the reading holds up. (Or, to put it another way, I, for myself, was less bothered about whether "Ranger" is a slur in The Lord of the Rings than the allegation that it's comparable to the "g" word if we accept the contention that it is indeed a slur.)


@Flammifer thanks for that bit of linguistic/military history. I wasn't aware of the details, but I think I tried to make a broadly similar argument in Discord during last week's session. Corey wondered what it meant that Aragorn was attired as a Ranger, or words to that effect, and admonished us not to let D&D guide our thinking. As someone who grew up on Lord of the Rings and only learned about D&D much later, I assumed it meant, essentially, "somebody who spends a lot of time traveling the wilderness, living rugged and off the land, finding their way in situations where city folk and country folk would be more apt to get hopelessly lost."


Rachel Port said:
They do use the nickname "Strider" as a pejorative, but that's largely his doing. He has chosen to appear that way to them. But I also don't think he's hiding his identity in general - why would the name Aragorn son of Arathorn make anyone think of the lost line of kings? It's been how many generations?
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It probably wouldn't mean much to folks in Bree, but they probably also wouldn't think twice about passing the name on. Use your name too freely among common folk, and you raise the chances of it spreading, and eventually reaching the ears of a servant of the Enemy - i.e., of Sauron. You want to keep under the Dark Lord's radar, and you happen to be a direct descendant of two of his greatest adversaries - including the guy who nicked his precious trinket - best to work under a pseudonym when you're mixing it up with the common peoples.


@Haerangil, I'm not the German language scholar in my family, so I can't speak to that side of things. I do know that in English, the "g" word does have "positive" connotations of being free spirited, nomadic, adventurous, etc., as in the term "g*ps* soul." However, you don't have to be a master of forensic linguistics to find that all of these uses of the "g" word derive from stereotypes about Romani peoples, which is why these uses are also avoided by those wishing to avoid giving insult and offense.

I could expound further on this point, but I know many people on this forum would prefer we steer clear as much as possible from real world politics - and looking at the current state of real world politics, I can certainly see why - so I think it's probably best if I left it at that.
 
Flammifer, it's a long time since I heard or thought of that song - thanks.

There is a difference between the way a group talks about itself and the way we talk about it, and while the term itself may not be derogatory, it shows a lack of respect, and we are more aware (hopefully) now than we used to be. But I think (and I'm with Corey on this) that this doesn't mean we can't say or spell the word in certain contexts, and literary discussion is one of those. But that's why I mention in my first comment that the Rangers seem to use the term about themselves.

I'm not sure the name Aragorn by itself would mean anything even to Saruman or Sauron. The men of Gondor use names of historical figures, both men and elves, so the remnant of the northern kingdom probably would as well. I find no reason to think either would associate the name alone with Isildur's heir. Seeing Aragorn in the palantir is quite different from hearing from spies about a scruffy Ranger in Bree called Aragorn. That's in our minds when we read it so we assume that the name itself would give him away, but that's far from certain. Of course Treebeard would feel very different. I wonder what he would call Aragorn.
 
Yeah some, most Romani peoples wish to avoid that term for themselves, but the german z-word for example, or the hungarian one, did not only apply ro romani but other different groups of travellers too, so theres a difference. And the g-word originally came from romani claiming to be egyptians.

On corys ranger theories...
No i also believe corey is wrong, as the term most likely has its origin in british medieval law enforcement and might come from the latin regardatores, rangers were forest-wardens and royal hunters enforcing the king's law.It is more likely ranger may have once been an official term or office but in breeland had become a term of distrust and fear because those were strange wanderers, without a king, but seemingly capable and fighters... farmers fear such men for a reason.
 
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Lincoln Alpern said:
@Haerangil, I'm not the German language scholar in my family, so I can't speak to that side of things. I do know that in English, the "g" word does have "positive" connotations of being free spirited, nomadic, adventurous, etc., as in the term "g*ps* soul." However, you don't have to be a master of forensic linguistics to find that all of these uses of the "g" word derive from stereotypes about Romani peoples, which is why these uses are also avoided by those wishing to avoid giving insult and offense.

I could expound further on this point, but I know many people on this forum would prefer we steer clear as much as possible from real world politics - and looking at the current state of real world politics, I can certainly see why - so I think it's probably best if I left it at that.
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Our gypsies here in Poland are proud to be gypsies and call themselves so. There are negative and positive sterotypes connected to them - like "stealing children or horses or being suspect fortune tellers" but also "being very romantic lovers and gifted dancers, musicians, metal workers and horsekeepers". If you suggest here that "gypsy" is a prejorative term you are in danger of getting punched in the face by one. ;) And as @Haerangil said, there are also other gypsy tribes who will get offended if you call them "Romani" and much more prefer the term "gypsy" - which is the tribe-neutral broader term. Actually "Romani" seems in Polish context a new strange artificial foreign and suspect word as the word "Dunedain" would appear to Butterbur if forced down on him.
 
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@Odola offtopic o know but what is the polish term/word they themselves use? Is it Cyganie?

To return to the topic: what i find strange is that we do not seem to have any real elvish translation for ranger in any of the Tolklangs (except for the apocryphic "Vettar") so... it must be a true westron exonym, possibly even of breeish origin.But then again... the term was used for an official royal elite-terror group in Ithilien so... it was probably widely known, and obvioulsly carried with pride by the ithilians.
 
As is so often true, both life and people are complicated. I read an ethnography back in undergrad, Bury Me Standing, in which the author noted some of her subjects preferred the "g" word to apply to themselves, some preferred "Romani," and some maybe other words that have slipped my memory over time. (Here in North America, there's also disagreement over whether to refer to the peoples who were living on this continent before European colonization as Indians, Native Americans, First Nations, Indigenous, probably several other terms as well.)

I do know that in my and Corey's neck of the woods, the "g" word is generally considered a slur and seen as offensive by the people it refers to - that is the context in which Corey originally brought it up, vis-a-vis the word "Ranger," and that is the way I also understand it in our context, and how I responded to him.

I will try to keep this information about this difference in understanding with how the word is used and understood among the people it refers to in Poland as opposed to North America in mind if and when I ever find myself back in those parts.
 
Haerangil said:
@Odola offtopic o know but what is the polish term/word they themselves use? Is it Cyganie?

To return to the topic: what i find strange is that we do not seem to have any real elvish translation for ranger in any of the Tolklangs (except for the apocryphic "Vettar") so... it must be a true westron exonym, possibly even of breeish origin.But then again... the term was used for an official royal elite-terror group in Ithilien so... it was probably widely known, and obvioulsly carried with pride by the ithilians.
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The Romani is "Romowie". But not all are ones. Gypsies is Cyganie.
 
You might maybe offend an eriadorian ranger by calling him a ranger while the gondorian ranger bears it as a badge of honor.
 
Aragorn, on his first trip back to the Prancing Pony after the War of the Ring, sings a song in the Common Room:

I've been a wild Ranger for many's the year
And I've spent all my money on pipeweed and beer
But now I'm returning with gold in great store
And I never will play the wild Ranger no more

And it's no, nay, never
No, nay, never, no more
Will I play the wild Ranger
No never, no more.
 
Flammifer said:
Aragorn, on his first trip back to the Prancing Pony after the War of the Ring, sings a song in the Common Room:

I've been a wild Ranger for many's the year
And I've spent all my money on pipeweed and beer
But now I'm returning with gold in great store
And I never will play the wild Ranger no more

And it's no, nay, never
No, nay, never, no more
Will I play the wild Ranger
No never, no more.
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Poor Arwen... ;)
 
Odola said:
Poor Arwen... ;)
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and here the translation of a song sung at every camp fire in Poland (among many others) - also and mostly by ethnic Poles - still untill this day:

We Gypsies
We gypsies who race with the wind
We gypsies know the whole world
We gypsies play [for] everybody
And we sing to ourselves:

Ore ore shabadabada amore
Hey amore shabadabada
O muriaty, o shogriaty
Hayda troyka na mienia
Ore ore...

When I dance the sky dances with me
When I whistle the wind whistles in the field
I'll close my eyes leaves will wither
When I fall silent silent is the world

Ore ore...
Ore ore...

When we sing the whole earth listens
When we sing every bird sings
Let all those sing with us
Let there be echoing of this song

Ore ore...

When I listen so does the whole earth
And when I sing each of us sings
When I quiet down there's no wind
I close my eyes there are no stars

- - -

Because this sun only shines within me
Because only I imagine this earth
When I leave it will be darker
I'll lift the whole world from you

Ore ore...
Ore ore...

It will be easier, it will be brighter,32
We will give you entire bliss,
It will be easier, it will be brighter
When you all sing:

Ore ore...
https://lyricstranslate.com/en/my-cyganie-we-gypsies.html

and here you have a current young artist who has no problem celebrating publicly her gypsiness signing this very traditional Polish folk song about being gypsies:


If this lady travels to the US and claims to be a gypsy artist and she hears that she cannot say this about herself she will be offended - because that is what she is and is proud to be.
 
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Oh yeah, like I said, this stuff is incredibly complicated, and different people in the same group can have wildly different perspectives on a given topic even before you bring in the issue of international difference.

It's also important to note that how an in-group uses a word that's considered a slur among its own members can be very different from how it's used by outsiders, once again, before we even bring in the international perspective. The "n" word as used by Black people in the United States being an obvious example, or the "d" word for gay women. Even in these communities, use of historical slurs can be controversial, but it's more widely accepted for people from these groups to refer to themselves or each other by the use of such slurs than it is for outsiders - such as myself - to do so.

If that artist in the video were to come to the US, there would certainly be a conversation and negotiation around how best to use language in a way that respects her sensibilities while also not giving offense to the local North American Romani population. I've no idea how that conversation would go, and I would try my best to be led in that regard by the people most directly impacted - i.e., the artist and the local Romani population themselves.

However it plays out, though, it will not change the fact that in countries like the US, the "g" word has the properties of a nasty slur in general, as Corey has correctly identified in his discussions, and is most properly treated as such.

(Again, if one hailing from North America were visiting Poland, or just addressing a predominantly Polish audience, it would behoove one to update their use of language to align more closely with Polish sensibilities, both in the interests of clarity and courtesy. This seems a perfectly reasonable approach to me.)


Another important note to bring up is that linguistic sensibilities change over time as well as across distance and between different persons. My understanding is that in places like the USA, the word "queer" to refer to people who fall outside the category of cisgender and heterosexual used to be a very offensive word indeed, whereas now it's become much more acceptable as a value neutral descriptor. Still controversial among some peoples, but tame enough that cishet people such as myself can be fairly confident in our ability to use the term in general cases without giving undue offense to people who don't conform to the cisgender heterosexual mold.

You can also track shifts in what is considered the respectful terminology to refer to Black people and Indigenous people in North America over the course of the 20th and early 21st centuries.

So perhaps the "g" word will be seen as less of a slur and more a neutral descriptor in North America at some point in the future. Or, alternatively, perhaps it will be seen as more offensive and less acceptable in Poland and other parts of Europe. Who can say?
 
Lincoln Alpern said:
So perhaps the "g" word will be seen as less of a slur and more a neutral descriptor in North America at some point in the future. Or, alternatively, perhaps it will be seen as more offensive and less acceptable in Poland and other parts of Europe. Who can say?
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Can be, as in Poland there are tendecies to copy everything American - regardless of the fact if a given phenomenon has any cultural relevance in our own context or not.

But there is also a counter-tendency as "Romani" is similar to "Romanians" which are newly migrating gypsy groups from Romania, who have a very bad reputation. As such our own native old-established gypsies wanting not to be associated with them start to use the traditional term more and more often. - And of course the ethnic Romanians from Romania are livid as well. ;)

How many gypsy tribes do you have in the US? I have just checked, we have four: Lowland Gypsies (Romani) - with several subgroups, the cauldron and frying pan makers Kelderari; the Lowari - the horse breeders; and the oldest group the Highland Gypsies who were smiths, beggars and stone cutters. I know the Germans have beside the Romani also the Sinti - who were actually the origin of the word "Zigeuner/Cyganie", but even if all our gypsies - except for the newly arrived "Romanian" ones - are called Cyganie, we barely have any Sinti ourselves.
 
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Zigeuner is even more controversial as it doesn't or at times didn't only cover Romani people.It could at times also be applied to Jenische, or other groups such as "Mäkkesser" such as myself , who also at times would refer to themselves as such and at times reject the term as a slur.Zigeuner also originally usually was only applied to travelling folks, as soon as these settled down they became "Gewesene Zigeuner" , roughly "Former Gypsies".

As a rule i guess it is better not to apply those terms to other peoples, or at last not folk one doesn't know, and YES it is a very different thing if people apply these terms to themselves.One day a no doub well-meaning anti-racist might scolder you for using the z-term, and may be right, the other day you may meet young romani who proudly call themselves that way. Complicated world as it is.

What would it be like in middle-earth? I guess you'd also be careful whom you'd call a ranger ...
 
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