Alatar and Pallando

Remuniating on this, Tolkien layer described the Ithryn Luin by saying ‘Their task was to circumvent Sauron...’

I think if we stick to that core, we could introduce them in the First Age. Knowing Sauron goes tot eh East, as do they, their simultaneous arrivals and collision course (with the ‘fall’ of the Two Blue) could provide the narrative arc for Sauron next season.

All five were present at Cuivienen plus Melian.So they knew at last the east a little bit...
If the two arrived innthe second age it makes sense they circumvented Sauron in Mordor and maybe had dealings with Kamul and the other eight, one organising in Rhun,the other in Harad. Possibly Saurman was looking for them when he went on his trip to the east inmthe tnird age... did he ever find out about them? Who knows...

Btw. Do we need maps of East and South? I recently drew some updated sketches for possible future works..

Screenshot_2022-06-18-15-14-40-1.png2022-06-18 14.43.26.jpg
 
I was thinking that we have a bit of a gap drama-wise with Sauron in the East possibly next season and it just struck me that it made a good opportunity to potentially introduce the two and talk about some of the wider narrative themes with them there. It's only a suggestion, but we aren't beholden to any true lore as it isn't ironed out and I think still flexible really due to their lack or direct play with the story.

Something to consider.

Also, didn't realise we had an Istari specific casting page. That's great.

As for the young vs old issue. I wasn't per se thinking they ought to be aged up versions but thought it was a nice touch. Plus, I really wanted to see some non-white actors amongst the traditionally 'old white men' wizards. And suggestion the two great actors as I did got my mind running as to how we could give them more screen time and make more of their acting chops. I do think Domnhall Gleeson to Gary Oldman seems a good fit though. Have we cast embodied Saruman at all?

At some point we might use Aragorns travels to the east and South for a possible frame narration...
It could be a certain plot that he investigates what became of the two or what Saruman did there.But would he ever find them? Maybe it would be more fun to have a supposed descendant telling an old story on the two and we never actually meet them...
 
Last edited:
At some point we might use Aragorns travels to the east and South for a possibke frame narration...
It could be a possible plot that he investigates what became of the two or what Saruman did there.But would he ever find them? Maybe it would be more fun to have a possibke descendant telling an old story on the two and we never actually meet them...

How could they have died? Not so easy for an Istar to do?
 
How could they have died? Not so easy for an Istar to do?
Why not? Gandalf was sent back by possibly direct intervention of Illuvatar himself. Saruman could be killed, even quite easily after Gandalf had exomminicated him.

But i don't even suggest them to be dead. Actually i'd prefer them still to be there, somewhere, hidden, having become figures of Legend..

Maybe the Wizards in Roverandom are actually Al and Pal
 
Sure.Never said they were stung by a bee or strangled in their sleep by an eastern relative of the hobbit-kin.Never said they are dead at all.
 
My hope would be that if one does get a happy quiet life, can we let him just live a happy quiet life lol although, maybe we need a tad more drama than eternal meditative fishing
 
My hope would be that if one does get a happy quiet life, can we let him just live a happy quiet life lol although, maybe we need a tad more drama than eternal meditative fishing

To have a "quiet live" one would have to be "living" - like in being reallly "incarnate". Those are creative active spirits, so not really sure that is a valid option for them.
 
One marrying the daugther of a sea-king and opening a cigarette shop on the sea while his wife gives swimming lessons, the other becoming the grumpy chief of an order of magical sand-experts are out of question?
 
Last edited:
To have a "quiet live" one would have to be "living" - like in being reallly "incarnate". Those are creative active spirits, so not really sure that is a valid option for them.

Hmm.. as i understood the Istari ARE fully incarnate,they did not just take the Fánar of humans, but ARE fully embodied. Radagast chose a quiet life as a hermit birdkeeper and animal rescue shelter, just sayin.
 
Last edited:
Hmm.. as i understood the Istari ARE fully incarnate,,they did not just take the Fana of humans, but ARE fully embodied. Radagast chose a quiet life as a hermit birdkeeper and animal rescue shelter, just sayin.

I do not think he considered this a "quiet" live though - he probably was fully immersed in his explorations...
 
I do not think he considered this a "quiet" live though - he probably was fully immersed in his explorations...

This was my point. Raising a child could be considered following the directive of undermining evil and inspiring others in a small act. The Istari show us the breadth of interpretation in their mission. I personal think a ‘quiet life’ of hopeful calm is an act of rebellion against the dark
 
Hmm...
Allright we must define quite life then i guess. After all, after successfully causing turmoil within Sauron's domains and creating enough opposition to make it impossible for him to rally ALL of his military and concentrate it fully on the Westlands... they still must have failed somehow. If they are not quite dead but still alive and did not become evil they must have somehow fallen out of favor or removed themselves from large-scale politics... how quiet that can be or should be ...
No idea.I can see one living in a fishing village on the beach and the other with some desert monastics.I can also see one living on some high and holy mountain and one on some eternal journey, i could see one as a former god-king who has renounced politely and one as a desillusioned former would-be messiah or prophetic founder of some eastern system of esoteric lore. Maybe one was the very first Dalai Lama and one the first emperor of China. Many possibilities...
Somehow i still like the idea of one of them becoming a farmer.
 
Wondering if we can set one up as the precursor of the Sauronic cult we see in the Gandalf frame of the previous season?
 
@Odola
If one of them was of Tulkas people that would be my first guess!

@Rob
I could totally see them using religion as a weapon against Sauron. If Sauron used a clergy to control the kings under his dominion via a system of belief in which he is the monotheistic god,,it would make sense for them to counter this with rebel cults. Such religions can even exist long after their founders have moved on and take new forms their founding figures never intended. So why shouldn't Sauron do the same and subvert such cults again to his cause?

I like the idea of blue religions which spread among the tribal, more removed folks, those who live afar from the urban centers which Sauronic client-tyrants and Priests of the Eye would inevitably seek to control.

But what religion would they preach? Most likely monotheistic Illuvatar-cults... maybe like early hebrew religion, egyptian Aton-cult, Zoroastrism, Hindu-pantheism with one highest being and many lesser demigods...
Possibly not one Orome-cult and one Mandos-cult... though i could see mortal men turn their teachings back intosuperstition and paganism after some generations...
 
@Odola
If one of them was of Tulkas people that would be my first guess!

@Rob
I could totally see them using religion as a weapon against Sauron. If Sauron used a clergy to control the kings under his dominion via a system of belief in which he is the monotheistic god,,it would make sense for them to counter this with rebel cults. Such religions can even exist long after their founders have moved on and take new forms their founding figures never intended. So why shouldn't Sauron do the same and subvert such cults again to his cause?

I like the idea of blue religions which spread among the tribal, more removed folks, those who live afar from the urban centers which Sauronic client-tyrants and Priests of the Eye would inevitably seek to control.

But what religion would they preach? Most likely monotheistic Illuvatar-cults... maybe like early hebrew religion, egyptian Aton-cult, Zoroastrism, Hindu-pantheism with one highest being and many lesser demigods...
Possibly not one Orome-cult and one Mandos-cult... though i could see mortal men turn their teachings back intosuperstition and paganism after some generations...

I do like the idea of one of them setting themselves up as an idol. Maybe thinking it will help steer people from Sauron. The simplicity of being this figurehead is an easy message to understand. A convenient religion. Then becoming a god-king. Then maybe, realising what they’ve become, decries it all snd wanders away, starts a family, raises a child orphaned by some catastrophe done in their name. But you can’t put the genie back in the bottle. Even with their god gone, the cult continues.

While the other is so disenfranchised by what their ‘brother’ did, they are this monastic figure leading a temple of Shaolin-esque followers in contemplation, reaching out in mission to serve those harmed by the other wizard. Maybe even training in combat to fight followers of the cult. Imagine how furious snd disgusted he must be with the fallen god figure. Perhaps even thinks he is dead.
 
Last edited:
I do like the idea of one of them setting themselves up as an idol. Maybe thinking it will help steer people from Sauron. The simplicity of being this figurehead is an easy message to understand. A convenient religion. Then becoming a god-king. Then maybe, realising what they’ve become, decries it all snd wanders away, starts a family, raises a child orphaned by some catastrophe done in their name.

Then the child in question becomes the ruler of a new dynasty... and so on...
 
So yeah, all this in mind, say we do have a rise and fall of one of the Blue Wizards, that would likely take place over several generations. So First Age certainly isn’t the place to meet retired hermited farmer former god-king. But I guess they’d have to Sauron’s influence in the west as a cult of figure to combat. And since he flees to the East end of this season, he can start his journey there for them to interact in later season perhaps
 
Back
Top