Swords
- Thread starter pdepaolis
- Start date
Marielle
Well-Known Member
I don't necessarily disagree, but I'm curious to your reasoning here. Idril's character is far from fully fleshed out, I think we have some wiggle room with her here. I'm not a fan of turning any non-explicitly-martial character, male or female, into a sudden ninja warrior prince/princess, but living in a time of war we might be able to establish her being at least proficient with a blade.
Haerangil
Well-Known Member
You take a blade in times of need to defend yourself... but that doesn´t mean you have any training with it or you actually DO own your own blade.
So even IF she´d grab a blade during the Siege, which would be highly likely even if just to defend hersrelf and her baby, i doubt she would be a very effective fighter...
Gondolin is a highly militaristic Society... but would Idril fit into that? Would she have had any training in swordplay?
She´s not one of the wild Noldo Girls of Valinor who goes out hunting with Orome or does Athletic feats at Tulkas Dojo. She grows up pretty isolated i think...
at last that would be my take on her character.
So even IF she´d grab a blade during the Siege, which would be highly likely even if just to defend hersrelf and her baby, i doubt she would be a very effective fighter...
Gondolin is a highly militaristic Society... but would Idril fit into that? Would she have had any training in swordplay?
She´s not one of the wild Noldo Girls of Valinor who goes out hunting with Orome or does Athletic feats at Tulkas Dojo. She grows up pretty isolated i think...
at last that would be my take on her character.
In the real life human women have fought. In the story are we still going to give Haleth her elite bodyguard of women? Elvish women are shorter, but comparatively almost as strong as the men.
Now Maeglin is one the best warriors in Gondolin, but I think it would be nice to see Idril holding her own, but gradually be overwhelmed until Tuor comes.
Now Maeglin is one the best warriors in Gondolin, but I think it would be nice to see Idril holding her own, but gradually be overwhelmed until Tuor comes.
Either am I, but I think this is a moment like when Sam faces Shelob, where she performs better than would be expected. I don't think she should be a warrior, but maybe a scene of Tuor giving her further instruction, because she has a foreboding that Gondolin will soon fall.
Marielle
Well-Known Member
You know, that is not something I had ever considered before? And now I feel silly. It's definitely a possibility her mind might take that turn.
Probably not Tuor, though, since he's an axeman. But some of the other Gondolin characters could use a little bit of fleshing out/screentime, so maybe one of them?
Marielle
Well-Known Member
Yes. I agree. Knowing basic self-defense and going up against a ranking karate champion, after all, are two very different things.
Edited to Add: Right now, my vote is Glorfindel. One, because he's awesome, and two, if we establish a personal friendship between him and Idril, his dying so she and her son can escape gets even more filled with pathos.
Edited to Add: Right now, my vote is Glorfindel. One, because he's awesome, and two, if we establish a personal friendship between him and Idril, his dying so she and her son can escape gets even more filled with pathos.
I would vote Glorfindel as well. He is going to be one of the longest running characters in the story, so why not develop him. I too, would love to see Idril and Glorfindel be close. I suggested going a step further than you and making them first cousins. Tolkien says Glorfindel was against going to ME and only went, because he was close kin to Turgon. I have suggested making Glorfindel Elenwe's nephew. Elenwe's sister, could be Glorfindel's mother. Glorfindel could be like an older brother to Idril and an uncle to Earendil. As you said it would make his sacrifice even more filled with pathos, but in addition it adds weight to his decision to return to ME. Idril, Tuor and Earendil may be safe, but out of love and duty, he still wants to protect Idril's grandson(Elrond)/descendants
Marielle
Well-Known Member
I feel like I should add a "Warning: Entering Non-Canon!" tag here, but this is in keeping with my head-canon for Idril very well. With first the loss of her mother, then the separation of her father's people from the rest of the Noldor, and then her aunt's disappearance and then return only to be murdered in front of her, I've often imagined Idril as rather desperate for family connections. Not in a clingy, orphan-looking-for-a-forever home in a Lifetime Movie, but still, someone who is very aware of how precious family can be. This will come up later, when we get to this storyline, but I imagine her calling Maeglin "cousin" as often -- if not more -- as she calls him by his name. At first, this would be to express her delight and welcome of him, but later it becomes a warning/reprimand.
Back to this thread's discussion, though: to those of you who know far more about this than me, is there a particular type of sword or swordsmanship style that's easier/better for non-warriors to master as a line last defense? I imagine Glorfindel probably isn't give her lessons in wielding a claymore, but other than that, I confess myself lost.
Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
I remember hearing somewhere that a spear is the way to go for this. Sword/buckler combo if you had to go with a sword. Let me check some things and I'll be right back to this.
Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
This is a rather interesting discussion on this topic. Matt Easton's suggestion of the small sword does somewhat line up with the jian.
Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
That said, the discussion on longsword was interesting. I kinda like the idea of Glorfindel teaching Idril about half-swording.
Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
Also, discussion with folks more familiar than I with Chinese weapons has suggested that a jian would not be super useful against enemies in heavier armor.