Session 5-13 and 5-14: Last of the Elves + Villains

I'd also like to remind everyone that given the story-telling economy of this season, there is a lot being discussed, both in the sessions and on the boards, that is going to wind up as subtext rather than getting its own episodes or scenes. It's great to know what everyone's motivations are going in, but it may not be as overt as some would like.
 
For the Villains: what’s the placement for the Haleth vs. Tevildo confrontation vs. the Council of Estolad? I could see either as the last set of events for the Villains this season until the Dagor Bragollach.
 
A small response to the issue of Finduilas and Gil-galad not both being sent to safety in the havens (to whatever extent this is how it is motivated, even partly): it is not uncommon for heirs of royalty to avoid travelling all together. Suppose Gil-galad was sent off (by choice, or compulsion, etc), but some wisdom prevailed and Finduilas was either to go at a different time, and it turned out not to happen. Or perhaps it was deemed a safe option to keep them in different locations, both presumably considered reasonably secure (pre-Mormegil, at least), as insurance. Just a thought.
 
Yes, I agree - sending Gil-galad to the Havens for safety is very much a relic of his story being that he is the only child of Fingon, who lives in the north and has just become High King. We have made him Orodreth's son, so we can't use that story. Nargothrond should be deemed as safe as anywhere. Deliberately separating his adult children is a different story, and one that will work better for us.

I do think that having this be fallout from the Feanorean takeover of Nargothrond will work out, storywise.
 
Yeah, not sending Gil-galad away for his safety, but more not having both him and Finduilas travel together. In Nargothrond it is (presumably) safe, and ditto at the havens, but very much not so the journey!
 
I stick to posting stuff about Círdan... Finrod should visit him and bring Bëor, and Círdan could try to get Bëor interested in ships. Finrod could say that sailing perhaps isn’t a thing Men do, and Círdan could reply ‘Who knows?’ And they could also discuss the relationship between Men and Elves, and Finrod is happy about his mission to be a teacher of Men, while Círdan muses that they could have some role to play that they cannot foresee. Maybe we also could show Círdan teaching young Gil-Galad how to catch big fish using a harpoon, or some kind of spear.
 
I stick to posting stuff about Círdan... Finrod should visit him and bring Bëor, and Círdan could try to get Bëor interested in ships. Finrod could say that sailing perhaps isn’t a thing Men do, and Círdan could reply ‘Who knows?’ Maybe we also could show Círdan teaching young Gil-Galad how to catch big fish using a harpoon, or some kind of spear.
Who knows... an allusion to Tuor and Earendil who had the sea-longing?
 
So something about Rhogrin and Annael that @Rhiannon brought up sometime ago: do we want Sauron to be shown putting the subconscious commands into Annael? Or do we want it to be a surprise when Annael is outed? That is: do we want him to be a time bomb that the audience knows could go off at any moment (think Agent Gibbs from Air Force One) or more unexpected?
 
Placement of the Villains at the Dagor Bragollach: Where to we want everyone to be? It's a multi-theater attack; we know that Glaurung is in the East where he burns Maglor's Gap, but the rest are up in the air. I'd envisioned Gothmog attacking Dorthonion and Ladros, Sauron attacking Minas Tirith, and Boldog attacking Barad Eithel (similar to the defensive linemen in a 4-3 defense in football with Glaurung and Boldog at the ends and Gothmog and Sauron at the tackles), but there have been some thoughts of not having Sauron take direct part in the battle.
 
Sauron will attack Minas Tirith at the opening of next season, right? So I think it would be interesting if he’s not in the loop, and taken by surprise by the attack, which also shows the viewers that Morgoth attacks with impatience, somewhat prematurely (discussed earlier)
 
Sauron will attack Minas Tirith at the opening of next season, right? So I think it would be interesting if he’s not in the loop, and taken by surprise by the attack, which also shows the viewers that Morgoth attacks with impatience, somewhat prematurely (discussed earlier)
I don't know, he doesn't look very smart if Angband has been preparing this assault for the better part of 50 years and he's out of the loop.
 
I stick to posting stuff about Círdan... Finrod should visit him and bring Bëor, and Círdan could try to get Bëor interested in ships. Finrod could say that sailing perhaps isn’t a thing Men do, and Círdan could reply ‘Who knows?’ And they could also discuss the relationship between Men and Elves, and Finrod is happy about his mission to be a teacher of Men, while Círdan muses that they could have some role to play that they cannot foresee. Maybe we also could show Círdan teaching young Gil-Galad how to catch big fish using a harpoon, or some kind of spear.

I like the idea of Finrod taking Bëor on a trip to see the Sea. Bëor was traveling towards the light in the West, and his journey stops when he meets Finrod, and sees the light of Valinor in his eyes. But to get so far west and not keep going to the edge of west in Beleriand would feel...unfinished. So the potential of Men to take journeys across the Sea being raised in the very beginning of the story of Men and Elves meeting sounds very positive. I like that we are setting up Earendil in this way! Eärendil, son of Tuor, son of Rían, daughter of Belegund, son of Bregor, son of Boromir, son of Boron, son of Baran, son of Bëor. In our story, nine generations of Men take us from Bëor to Eärendil. And Círdan will still be there by the Sea, long after they have all passed.

Our elves who will die this season are: Aredhel, Eöl, Aegnor, Angrod, and Fingolfin. So, this will be a 'last chance' for any interactions we want any of them to have.
 
I don't know, he doesn't look very smart if Angband has been preparing this assault for the better part of 50 years and he's out of the loop.
I don’t see why this is a problem. Besides, Dagor Bragollach is more or less a success anyway.
 
If I have understood the idea correctly, it is that Morgoth has been preparing a war for some time, but he launches early, ahead of schedule. So, someone who is well aware of the plan could still be caught by surprise by the timing.
 
If Angband has been working on the same thing for 50 years, how would he be caught off guard?

Well the plan is ‘to build an army and wipe out the Elves’, I don’t think they need to have meetings every Monday and talk about it. The decision that this is happening NOW is premature and something Morgoth could forget to make sure Sauron knows. Gothmog could even be told that Sauron has to be informed but he doesn’t do it, but I’m not sure we should take things that far.
 
Placement of the Villains at the Dagor Bragollach: Where to we want everyone to be? It's a multi-theater attack; we know that Glaurung is in the East where he burns Maglor's Gap, but the rest are up in the air. I'd envisioned Gothmog attacking Dorthonion and Ladros, Sauron attacking Minas Tirith, and Boldog attacking Barad Eithel (similar to the defensive linemen in a 4-3 defense in football with Glaurung and Boldog at the ends and Gothmog and Sauron at the tackles), but there have been some thoughts of not having Sauron take direct part in the battle.
In addition to being a multi-theater attack, the Dagor Bragollach is a prolonged attack; it happens over the course of several months. According to The Silmarillion, "War ceased not wholly ever again in Beleriand; but the Battle of Sudden Flame is held to have ended with the coming of spring, when the onslaught of Morgoth grew less." And, of course, we have two episodes to spread the events out over.

I don't think we need to split the villains up like a football play. We can have Glaurung and the Balrogs both attacking Dorthonion at the front of the rivers of fire coming from Angband and swarms of Orcs everywhere else. The sons of Feanor are going to hold out for a while against the attack, so we can show Maglor's Gap resisting the Orcs until Glaurung gets over there. Perhaps we could place Boldog in the Fens of Serech where Finrod will be fighting and be rescued by Barahir.
 
Last season, there was talk about spreading out the reveal of Glaurung's powers; consequently, we did not show his ability to speak during his attack in Episode 13. We did show that he was capable breathing fire and hypnotizing some Elves with his eyes.

If we want to save the reveal of Glaurung's ability to speak for the Dagor Bragollach, we will have to show him not speaking in any scenes of Angband before that. That might make it difficult to portray him as having any part in the internal politics of Angband. Or, we could simply forget about what we said last season and show Glaurung talking to the other villains this season.

Another possibility would be to differentiate between Glaurung's ability to speak and his ability to speak with the kind of persuasive, hypnotic power he later uses on Turin. Perhaps we could have Glaurung speak normally in his conversations with other villains in Angband, use some kind of musical cue or transformation of the actor's voice to indicate when Glaurung is casting a spell with his words, and then reveal this ability during the Dagor Bragollach.

I could envision a potential scene where Glaurung is attacking Maglor's Gap, and Maglor orders his soldiers not to look into Glaurung's eyes because that's how the Elves know he is able to hypnotize people. The soldiers obey, but then Glaurung starts talking. Maybe he counters Maglor's orders or calls out to Maglor personally, but either way, the morale of Maglor's soldiers fails, and Glaurung wins the battle.
 
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