Script Discussion S06E03

Nicholas Palazzo said:
If we want to call attention to this, it can be brought up in the dinner scene at Minas Tirith in E01, and it could come up during Gil-galad's visit to Doriath if we really want to hit it with a hammer, but Luthien expressing knowledge of it would likely do the same job.
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Would be nice to hear it mentioned at least once before B&L meet, or it would seem she is exaggerating to make Beren look better in Thingol's eyes. Luthien is not really an impartial witness here.
 
Vibes said:
How do we go about helping with the scriptwriting process?
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There are script discussions on the main podcast's off-weeks on Friday where script outlines are developed. After that people can message Nick asking to write scripts - they're assigned a week after the discussion. Or, I believe there's a procedure for writing the unwritten scripts of previous seasons.
 
kanji_d said:
There are script discussions on the main podcast's off-weeks on Friday where script outlines are developed. After that people can message Nick asking to write scripts - they're assigned a week after the discussion. Or, I believe there's a procedure for writing the unwritten scripts of previous seasons.
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Ooh. I see. I wanted to know if there is any way i can help, because I don't really have much scriptwriting experience (borderline none), so..
 
So, as I've been working the script, and have been attempting to flesh out the Nargothrond plotline, I've noticed that scenes 7 and 9 are very similar to each other. I therefore propose the following revision: The current content of Scene 9 is absorbed into Scene 7 and Scene 9 becomes:

Finrod, Orodreth, and Celebrimbor discuss the Feanorians' plans. Orodreth is opposed, and Celebrimbor continues to be suspicious of his father and uncle. Finrod is opposed on principle, but does not want to upset the Feanorians. He decides to hold a public debate to determine what to do.

I believe this would minimize repitition, and also show how the Finarfinians (+Celebrimbor) are responding to the growing Feanorian influence.
 
kanji_d said:
So, as I've been working the script, and have been attempting to flesh out the Nargothrond plotline, I've noticed that scenes 7 and 9 are very similar to each other. I therefore propose the following revision: The current content of Scene 9 is absorbed into Scene 7 and Scene 9 becomes:

Finrod, Orodreth, and Celebrimbor discuss the Feanorians' plans. Orodreth is opposed, and Celebrimbor continues to be suspicious of his father and uncle. Finrod is opposed on principle, but does not want to upset the Feanorians. He decides to hold a public debate to determine what to do.

I believe this would minimize repitition, and also show how the Finarfinians (+Celebrimbor) are responding to the growing Feanorian influence.
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This isn't that far off from how I remember these scenes playing out when we talked about them. One thing I would caution against is having Finrod express an opinion in this conversation. If he does, it makes the end feel like a foregone conclusion. Especially if he's going to first check in on what the people want, and then go with his original thought anyway. We faced a similar situation with Fingolfin back in S03. When the tension of the plot hangs on a leader's decision, you have to either have their mind changed by the climax, or have their mind not made up.
 
MithLuin said:
I will admit that 'conversation at his father's grave' is very much reminding me of this scene from the second season of Supernatural:


Granted, the conversation here is working in reverse - the son is trying to abandon the mission for personal happiness, and lets his father's memory talk him into becoming a hero and saving people. But conversations at graves are definitely a thing that happens in media, so I think we'll be able to convey that Beren is talking to his father just this once in a meaningful way if we stage a scene like this after Beren recovers the ring.
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So in the end, the entire episode 'What is and What Should Never Be' (Supernatural 2x20) winds up being relevant to this episode.

Sorry?
 
I'll admit not liking that there isn't a duel between Beren and Gorgol; from what I've read, Beren cuts Gorgol's throat, takes the hand and Ring of Barahir, and leaves. Like my gripes about Sauron, Beren doesn't get a lot of moments to shine in single combat; most of the time he gets his ass kicked and is bailed out by someone/something stronger than he is, be it Finrod, Lúthien or Huan most of the time (Finrod sacrifices himself to kill the werewolf, Lúthien and Huan humiliate Sauron, Huan stops Celegorm). And Gorgol is the only one who he could conceivably beat as he only escapes from the spiders.
 
How would you like Beren to kill Gorgol? Keep in mind that Beren is alone, and Gorgol has a large force of orcs nearby, a group large enough to kill all the other outlaws in combat.
 
The script says that Beren prepares a bunch of traps, right? Beren could kill sentries silently, throw the camp into confusion, kill Gorgol during that, then run some of the Orcs into his traps as he flees.
 
Ange1e4e5 said:
The script says that Beren prepares a bunch of traps, right? Beren could kill sentries silently, throw the camp into confusion, kill Gorgol during that, then run some of the Orcs into his traps as he flees.
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Whatever he does he is limited to daylight before he has to leave beyond the orcs' reach. He cannot let the night catch him after having discovered the camp or he is toast. He goes back to a place that is already known to the enemy - this can only be done only "under the cover of daylight" and only for as long as this cover persists. And this is in winter and the days are short.
 
kanji_d said:
I have had Beren approaching the camp of the Orcs at night. No time for traps.
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Beren outwits orcs at night - which is their natural activity phase and when they can see well and can smell him from afar and he is generally at a great disadvantage being a daylight hunter as a human? Very brave but unwise.
What is his rationale for that? Does he assume the orcs to be all drunk or convinced that they got all outlaws killed and being uncareful?
 
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Ange1e4e5 said:
I'll admit not liking that there isn't a duel between Beren and Gorgol; from what I've read, Beren cuts Gorgol's throat, takes the hand and Ring of Barahir, and leaves. Like my gripes about Sauron, Beren doesn't get a lot of moments to shine in single combat; most of the time he gets his ass kicked and is bailed out by someone/something stronger than he is, be it Finrod, Lúthien or Huan most of the time (Finrod sacrifices himself to kill the werewolf, Lúthien and Huan humiliate Sauron, Huan stops Celegorm). And Gorgol is the only one who he could conceivably beat as he only escapes from the spiders.
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I'm not sure why a protracted duel is necessary to demonstrate Beren's competence. He's a veteran of the Dagor Bragollach, which we saw happen. He participates in the outlaws' raid in E01. He survives crossing Ered Gorgoroth and Nan Dungortheb. I guess I just don't see some sort of Errol Flynnesque duel as a requirement.
 
I also think Beren assassinating Gorgol from behind makes him more human, more approachable and vulnerable.I don't see it as necessary for him to shine as a great chivalric fighter in that situation.
 
Haerangil said:
I also think Beren assassinating Gorgol from behind makes him more human, more approachable and vulnerable.I don't see it as necessary for him to shine as a great chivalric fighter in that situation.
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The problem is that he is too "human, approachable and vulnerable" in the whole of the story. The hero whose head Morgoth placed the price on is not recognisable - I do know we do not do the price - still Beren should be hero on his own right and not just an accessory that Luthien happens to fancy.
 
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