Baragund and Belegund

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Baragund and Belegund are the cousins of Barahir, sons of his uncle Bregolas. Each has a daughter, Baragund is the father of Morwen making him grandfather to Túrin, and Belegund is the father of Rian making him grandfather of Tuor. Both brothers participated in Barahir's defense of Dorthonion and Ladros alongside their cousin Beren (Barahir's son) where they were killed by Orcs when Gorgol's war party raided the camp at Tarn Aeluin on Gorlim's orders.

Baragund and Belegund are men in their 30s or 40s, younger than Barahir who's in his fifties. Baragund should have the classical dark looks of the House of Bëor while Belegund is a little lighter complexioned. Not too much personality-wise but their appearance sets up how other characters look.
 
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For Baragund:
Theo James
Age: 38
Height: 6'0"
Roles: Kemal Pamuk in Downton Abbey, Tobias Eaton/Four in Divergent, David in Underworld
James is of Greek ancestry through his paternal grandfather. I nominated him for Amlach last season but he could also fit as a member of the House of Bëor.
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For Belegund:
Allen Leech
Age: 41
Roles: Marcus Agrippa in Rome, Francis Dereham in The Tudors, Tom Branson in Downton Abbey, Brennan in As Luck Would Have It
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Wondering if this is a direction to go?

Daniel & Luis Moncada (Better Call Saul). I will say, I've not been following the characters involvement in this season so not sure how heavily they will feature and how much screen-time/dramatic moments, will be allocated to them.

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So, we do need a few more nominees for these brothers over the next week or so!

I think it would be funny to nominate Elijah Wood and Daniel Radcliff to play brothers. They're roughly the correct ages for these roles, but, alas - Elijah Wood is of northern European background, and Daniel Radcliff is a mixture of UK and eastern European, but neither of them has what could be described as a 'Mediterranean' background or looks.

Baragund is 39 during the Dagor Bragollach, and 44 at his death. His daughter Morwen would be about 12 when she last sees him.
Belegund is 35 during the Dagor Bragollach, and 40 at his death. His daughter Rían would be about 5 when she last sees him.

The characters appear in Episodes 12-13 of Season 5 and Episodes 1-2 of Season 6, and appear in multiple skirmishes and battles. Depending on choices made by the director, they may get onscreen death scenes battling orcs/werewolves/vampires.
 
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Perhaps Shia LeBeouf for Baragund? He's Jewish on one side (both Polish and Russian), and French Cajun on the other, so that might work for 'Mediterranean'.


He's 5'10" (1.76 m) and 36 years old.

I know he was a child actor and in Transformers, but I don't know if I've ever seen his work. I mostly know him from this ridiculous YouTube video:


Oh, wait! He also performs in Sia's music video to 'Elastic Heart' which is either about a) child abuse, or b) werewolves

 
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Could they be played by the same actor? With different hair styles? Scars? Brands? Mild prostheses? Other significant features?
 
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Perhaps Shia LeBeouf for Baragund? He's Jewish on one side (both Polish and Russian), and Frech Cajun on the other, so that might work for 'Mediterranean'.


He's 5'10" (1.76 m) and 36 years old.

I know he was a child actor and in Transformers, but I don't know if I've ever seen his work. I mostly know him from this ridiculous YouTube video:

He’s great, I saw him doing a fantastic portrait of John McEnroe.
 
Could they be played by the same actor? With different hair styles? Scars? Brands? Mild prostheses? Other significant features?

They are not twins, so I would prefer two different actors that the audience can tell apart if they are paying attention. Also, they are in many scenes together, so you'd need a lot of body double work and filming all their scenes twice to get coverage on two different characters with the same actor...such practical considerations don't matter to us, but it sounds like a nuisance for little payoff. Why should these minor character brothers look and sound nearly identical? Won't that just make them interchangeable?

That being said, there is certainly no rule against nominating one actor for both roles.
 
They are not twins, so I would prefer two different actors that the audience can tell apart if they are paying attention. Also, they are in many scenes together, so you'd need a lot of body double work and filming all their scenes twice to get coverage on two different characters with the same actor...such practical considerations don't matter to us, but it sounds like a nuisance for little payoff. Why should these minor character brothers look and sound nearly identical? Won't that just make them interchangeable?

That being said, there is certainly no rule against nominating one actor for both roles.
Just trying to consider options was all.

On the note of Shia, it does make me wonder if we’ve thought about any ‘real world’ implications of casting actors that likely wouldn’t get the work in the real world. If this were a real show for example, I’d not want to give Shia LaBeouf a job. However, are we casting based on appearance and ability and ignoring any real world realities as it’s purely speculative?

Another example would be, if we are only casting living actors, then are we only casting working and we’ll actors? Could we cast a Jim Carrey or Bruce Willis for example. Not sure what roles we’d even consider but the hypothetical stands
 
The only restrictions are:

1) Actor must be alive
2) Actor must have an imdb page
3) Actor must not already be cast in Silm Film (exceptions made for voice roles)

We've cast actors who no longer work in film before. I know the actor we chose for Sauron has transitioned to writing stage plays and raising children, and expressed frustration with the industry (so would be unlikely to show interest in a long-term TV role). We work on the assumption that we could tempt them out of retirement with our awesome project.

We've cast actors who have never worked in television before, or who cost $1 million dollars to hire for a movie. In the real world, that would not happen, but in 'fantasy casting', it's fine. If we want Dwayne 'The Rock' Johnson to play Tulkas, then we can say so.

If an actor's illness or injury means that they no longer are capable of working, I recognize that it might seem insensitive to suggest them for a role. Or, it could be a tribute to their past work, since their current illness does not actually prevent them from starring in our fake show. That is probably something that can be handled on a case by case basis. It's something to discuss here, but is not a barrier to nomination.

If an actor is considered problematic because of their personal life, public statements, criminal activity, or a history of being difficult to work with, etc, certainly that can be a reason to choose not to nominate him or her for a role. It does not automatically disqualify them, though. Because choosing them is NOT giving them a job. One reason is that this fan project is small in scope, so it would generate neither funds, press, attention, nor anything else of value to the actor in question. So, since we are doing no harm, there is no rule against selecting someone with a bad past. If I hate an actor's body of work, I'm not going to nominate them for anything, though.


I have no idea what Shia LeBoeuf has done to make him unhireable right now; I was unaware that there was any issue there. (I assume he's not actually a murderous cannibal...) According to imdb, he portrays Padre Pio in a 2022 film. That is in part why I suggested him - if he was hired to play an Italian, he probably fits the bill of 'Mediterranean looks' that will work with the other cast members in the House of Bëor.

But to state this as plainly as I can: 85-year-old Bill Cosby is eligible to be cast on Silm Film for the remainder of his life. I don't foresee any role where people are going to say, 'Man, you know who would be perfect for that? Bill Cosby!' And if it did come up, I would likely refrain from nominating him myself, because the first thing I think of when I hear his name now is not his long career as a comedian and actor, but the court cases related to him drugging women. So...that's fine. But he is eligible, so if someone does wish to nominate him (say, for a voice role), they're allowed.
 
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It SEEMS thorough, but does not address certain issues:

'Can I nominate a living actor, but based on photos/work from 20+ years ago?' The answer is that their current age and appearance is what is under consideration, but you're allowed to consider their entire body of work in your nomination.

'What if an actor cast for a role dies before Silm Film is finished with their story arc?' As far as I know, that issue hasn't arisen yet, but if it were to happen, we could consider recasting. Might depend on the role/actor, though.

'Can we cast an actor to play a relative of their original character in later seasons?' We didn't re-use the Lúthien actress for Arwen, but might we want one of the Aragorn actors to portray Elendil or have the Elros actor show up as a king of Gondor later on? Something like that, where we're emphasizing the line by bringing someone back? Right now, that is not allowed, but if there were a reason, we could reconsider our exceptions. A Denise Crosby / Tasha Yar situation, where the character dies, but the actor returns to the story anyway.

Etc.

The idea is to keep the restrictions to a minimum, while still keeping the discussion 'current'. As it is, the 'no casting someone who is already cast' rule makes it difficult enough for newcomers to participate in the nomination process. (Though the rule is necessary to prevent chaos.)
 
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I think the ‘no casting someone who is already cast’ is pretty straightforward in the sense that you wouldn’t do that in a regular show unless it was for a clear purpose. May someone is masquerading or is supposed to look just like another character for some reason (possibly familial). I don’t think it’s too hard to grasp as the opposite is uncommon. Recasting actors within a show does happen but often it’s in an anthology style series (ala American Horror Story). And even then, it is for a reason, albeit a stylistic rather than overly narrative based on. We simply haven’t really got to the situation where we’d be looking to cast a repeat actor for a season-long role. It may never come up but if it did, I think most are used to the dynamic from the media we consume.

The death of an existing actor is an interesting question. My assumption would be we’d continue as is but I think it’s maybe a more interesting challenge to act as if those real-world consequences apply and think what else we could do with the story. Again, we’ll have to see what comes.
 
Yes, it makes sense and is straightforward, but at this point, we've cast ~150 actors already, so that's a lot to keep track of.
 
So.... apparently Shia Labeouf has a trial date tomorrow (postponed until November). I was not aware of that. He has a history of alcoholism, anger management issues, and abuse allegations that have surfaced throughout his career. Such issues are, unfortunately, not uncommon among former child actors, who are seldom looked out for in their very much adult work environments. He has made apologies and sought treatment in the past, but his issues seem to be very much current. I can understand anyone being hesitant to nominate a volatile actor for a role.

Sometimes he is defensive, other times he confesses publically to what he has been accused of, admitting that it is not acceptable behavior. He claims to be sober for almost 2 years and to have started over for the sake of his 5 month old daughter. He has reconciled with his ex-wife. He was working as recently as January-March of this year (on set for Francis Ford Coppola's Megalopolis in Atlanta), but that would hardly be the first time a production was willing to overlook bad behavior in a talented or famous actor, so doesn't in itself prove that anything is 'fine.'

I will also point out that we would not actually be endangering any hypothetical coworkers, so I don't consider thorough vetting and due diligence strictly necessary to the nomination process. Still, only nominate or vote for people who you want to.

We have nominated and cast Jon Bernthal (as Rhogrin) based on his work as the Punisher. He has given interviews in which he confessed to getting into a street fight where he beat a guy badly enough that he could have died. Bernthal was arrested, but the guy lived, so he didn't go to jail for 20 years, and instead got 3 years probation (and paid damages in a civil suit). The actor moved out of that life/environment. That 2009 incident is, as far as I know, firmly in the past for him. He has since gotten married and he and his wife have several children. But he didn't get that crooked nose simply from boxing matches, is what I'm saying.

In fact...those two actors have worked together in the past, and know one another. Jon Bernthal has interviewed Shia LaBeouf in the past year about his, shall we say, bad behavior:


I am not sure what, if anything, I take away from this. I think that this is one of those 'time will tell' situations where the difference between working hard to get away with something versus actually addressing problems and changing behavior will become clear. But that time hasn't passed yet, so....
 
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