Comments on Profile Post by amysrevenge

  1. Faelivrin
    Faelivrin
    Historians anachronistically using epithets acquired decades or centuries later?

    Some event was invented in Season 2 to earn the name... I dunno what. Maybe you already knew that though.
    Dec 17, 2018
  2. amysrevenge
    amysrevenge
    Yeah I was just listening to a reading and the reader stressed "Valiant" and I'm like, in what way, exactly. Awesome, clever, strong, swift, charming, funny, all fine. But at the point where Feanor torches the boats, Fingon has only had one real chance to be valiant.
    Dec 17, 2018
  3. Faelivrin
    Faelivrin
    The historians also call Mablung "the heavy handed." But that was apparently an epithet he got after the Quest of the Silmaril. The histories never use his original name, whatever it was.
    Dec 17, 2018
  4. Ange1e4e5
    Ange1e4e5
    The published Silmarillion (pg 87) states that Fingon, leading the vanguard, turned the tide in favor of the Noldor.
    Dec 17, 2018
  5. Faelivrin
    Faelivrin
    If that's where he got the epithet it's... an unfortunate reason to be called Valiant. Or at least, unfortunate to Fingon's tastes.
    Dec 17, 2018
  6. Ange1e4e5
    Ange1e4e5
    Maybe it’s ironic.
    Dec 17, 2018
  7. amysrevenge
    amysrevenge
    It highlights the turn in Maedhros. Up until the next moment, when Feanor burns the ships rather than returning for the rest of the Host, Maedhros still has his blinders on - he's gung-ho that they're on the right path.
    Dec 17, 2018
  8. Faelivrin
    Faelivrin
    "Surely Dad will be reasonable about this. He's been reasonable about everything else so far."

    *facepalm*
    Dec 17, 2018
  9. amysrevenge
    amysrevenge
    It's more than that even. "We've been on the side of justice and righteousness this whole time. Wait, we're burning the ships? That's not just or right. Wait, what about that whole Teleri thing? How just and right was that? Oh no, are WE the bad guys here?" He doesn't go as far as "Yes, we are the bad guys" but it's the first time he's turned a thought in that direction.
    Dec 17, 2018
  10. Faelivrin
    Faelivrin
    At what point do you think he finally feels any regret or remorse over all the people he murdered at Alqualonde? Do you think he ever apologized to Earwen's family? Should we ever show him apologizing for it? There's no mention of it in the books.
    Dec 17, 2018
  11. amysrevenge
    amysrevenge
    It's one of those issues that's easy in a bird's eye view - the momentum has been carrying him forward, and it is at this very moment that he has his first regrets. In narrative form - he spends days? weeks? on board a ship. At some point he'd have to physically clean the blood off himself, and his gear. Surely he has at least some time for reflection, for the momentum to wane.
    Dec 17, 2018
  12. MithLuin
    MithLuin
    Maedhros has plenty of time to think over his regrets as he hangs on Thangorodrim. I have to imagine he took the opportunity for a little introspection at that point....
    As for Fingon, he doesn't seem to really regret the past so much as to move towards the future hopefully. Doesn't mean he can't apologize, but he's more of a 'let me make this right for you' kind of guy. ...
    Dec 18, 2018
  13. MithLuin
    MithLuin
    I think Maedhros will definitely apologize to Finrod at some point. They stay friends, and Finrod goes hunting with him and Maglor in early Season 5.

    Presumably, there was some daring feat Fingon pulled off in Valinor (prior to the Kinslaying) to earn him the epithet. But, it is possible it was from the Kinslaying or even later (despite being recorded in Maedhros' dialogue at Losgar).
    Dec 18, 2018
  14. MithLuin
    MithLuin
    In SilmFilm, Fingon earned the epithet as a kid. Celegorm got stuck in a dry well trying to rescue an animal. Fingon climbed down to rescue him, and when Maedhros came back from getting the adults, he called him 'Fingon the Valiant'. Of course, earlier that day, he'd said the same thing derisively, because Fingon wouldn't go along with whatever shenanigans the Fëanoreans were up to.
    Dec 18, 2018
  15. amysrevenge
    amysrevenge
    I remembered the gist of that from our story. It just kind of jumped out at me in the text, coming seemingly out of nowhere on the shore.
    Dec 18, 2018
  16. MithLuin
    MithLuin
    Yes, Maedhros clearly knows Fingon better than the reader does, at that point in the story!

    Kinda like how Merry knows that Lotho will be at the bottom of any ill doings in the Shire, though this is the first the reader is hearing about it.
    Dec 19, 2018
  17. Faelivrin
    Faelivrin
    An additional question is whether Maedhros ever sent an apology to Thingol. Given his inability/unwillingness to ask nicely for a Silmaril after his brothers abducted Luthien for forced marriage, it does seem less likely than apologizing to Finrod.
    Jan 16, 2019
  18. MithLuin
    MithLuin
    Maedhros seems mostly dismissive of Thingol, so I can't see him thinking to extend an olive branch - what's the point? As for the impolitely-worded-letter...I highly doubt Maedhros penned it. After the failure of the Union of Maedhros, he's no longer calling the shots for the Fëanoreans.
    Jan 16, 2019
  19. Faelivrin
    Faelivrin
    I agree, after the Fifth Battle he's definitely not their leader... although he _could_ have sent Dior a nice letter of his own, regardless of what Celegorm or Curufin wrote. Of course that would have shown internal divisions instead of a united front...

    But, actually, I was thinking of the letter they sent to Thingol before the Union, which was also needlessly obnoxious.
    Jan 20, 2019
  20. Faelivrin
    Faelivrin
    It seems possible that if Maedhros had written Thingol apologizing profusely for his brothers' misbehavior, praising the deeds of Beren and Luthien, and offering to ransom the Silmaril with something else valuable, Melian might have been able to persuade Thingol to let it go. But... nooooo.
    Jan 20, 2019