A sword of "less lineage"

[Bruce N H]

Hey all,

In "The Ring Goes South" we were discussing the swords carried by the company leaving Rivendell. Boromir's sword is of "less lineage" than Narsil/Anduril, so that got me thinking about their swords.

BTW, all of my books are packed up, so this is mostly based on the Tolkien Gateway. So I apologize if I have some dates wrong.

Aragorn has Narsil/Anduril, potentially the oldest weapon of the group. He tells Hama at Meduseld that "Telchar first wrought it in the deeps of time." Telchar also made the Dragon Helm of Dor-Lomin and Angrist, so he was actively making weapons around the second or third century of the first age. So we don't have an exact date, but lets say it's around 6800-7000 years old.

Gandalf wields Glamdring, which is potentially older still. We know it was Turgon's sword ("This, Gandalf, was Glamdring, Foe-hammer that the king of Gondolin once wore."), so it could have come over from Valinor. But since it was made to glow as an orc-detector, it was presumably made once Turgon was in Beleriand - likely forged in Gondolin, so sometime between 64 and 510. So it would be about the same age as Narsil, give or take a century or two.

Sting was also from Gondolin. Let's guess that there was a huge build-up of weapons in preparation for the Nirnaeth Aroediad. If Sting dates to that time it is around 6600 years old.

Merry, Pippin, and Sam are bearing swords forged during the wars between Angband and Cardolan between 1300 and 1409, so they are at least 1609 years old.

I don't think we know any details about Boromir's sword, but his horn goes back to Vorondil the Hunter, who became Steward in 1998. So his horn is just over 1000 years old. If we assume his sword is similarly an heirloom of the House of Stewards, it could be around the same age.

So Boromir's sword is not just of lesser lineage than Aragorn's, it's also lesser every other sword in the company. (Poor Legolas and Gimli, though. We have no indication that their weapons have long histories at all.)

* Caveat 1 - The Stewards go back almost 1400 years, so Boromir's sword could go back further. Indeed, they were descended from Numenor, so the sword could be something passed down for much longer, even something that got packed up with the tree, the palantiri, and the Stone of Erech when they were leaving Numenor.

* Caveat 2 - Lineage isn't just about age, it's also about the history of the sword - who bore it, what it did. So there's a strong argument that Turgon's sword beats Elendil's sword in that sense - the high king of the Noldor vs the high king of the men of Arnor and Gondor. But OTOH Narsil was used to defeat Sauron in the War of the Last Alliance, so that's a definite point for Narsil.

Bruce

 

[Anthony Lawther]

A very old sword carried by a line of people of little note, is of lesser lineage than a relatively new sword carried by a line of great heroes doing great deeds with it.

As the greatness of deeds in Middle Earth tend to be on a descending scale, older swords have a higher likelihood of being of greater lineage, but this is not a guarantee.

If a matched pair of swords had been given to a First Age Man who then fell in battle with each going to one of their offspring, one of whom also fights the Enemy while the other hides in the forest, then one sword will have lesser lineage than the other, purely for the lesser (quality or quantity of) deeds done with it.

 

[Rachel Port]

My first thought about Boromir's sword was "it's so Third Age."

 

[Kate Neville]

I always assumed that the 'best' swords of Gondor were at least inspired by memories of Elendil's sword -- we know that Isildur left a drawing of the Ring inscription in the library at Minas Anor, and I would not be surprised if there weren't also some drawings of Elendil, Isildur and Anarion. They must have had something to work from in constructing the Argonath.

[Regarding the matter of Aragorn carrying around a broken sword, I think I posted way back in the Bree years that my head-canon was that one of the things that Aragorn was doing when he on "a journey of his own" during the summer was getting the shards of Narsil. Elrond had given him the shards, along with the Ring of Barahir, when he told him his true name and lineage. It is highly, highly unlikely that he carried those shards around with him for 60 years, including all the time he was in Rohan and Gondor. He might have left them with Elrond, but it is also possible that he left them somewhere with his people, the Dúnedain, who must have had refuges of their own (maybe near Annúminas?). With the revelation of the true nature of Frodo's ring, it was clear that the time had come for which he had been preparing, and that he would need Narsil reforged. So he had it with him in Bree.]

 

[Rachel Port]

Exactly. But I think he left the shards with Elrond until he had finished his travels and battles in the south. By that time he had become engaged to Arwen, that scene with Elrond happened, and his mother had left Rivendell. I imagine he took the shards and left them with her and at his farewell visit to her afterwards they found a secure place for it since she knew she would die soon. So I think that when he went away the summer before Frodo left the Shire, he went to collect the shards of Narsil. When he showed them to the hobbits in Bree, he was carrying them to Rivendell - he knew his time had come, and they would be reforged. His carrying it on that journey was solemn and almost ceremonial.

Not all that different from your head canon, Kate.