A thought on Output

NancyL

Member
I was thinking how nice it would be to start from a book (visually on-screen at least) and have our output (at least a part of it) based on that model/image. You are all familiar i'm sure with annotated editions of classics: the story being printed in the center of the book, while various notes are added in the (large) margins. Based on what i've seen so far in the category thread, our concept would go well beyond those few notes per page, but perhaps we could borrow the LotrO structure of having various "tabs" below the main page which lead to various high level sub-categories.

I'm sure the legal department will weigh in on the fact that we can't use the book itself, but maybe we can recycle Corey's slides?
 
Unfortunately I don't think it will be possible to use the LOTR text as a basis for the project. I'd love to create an interactive annotated text as part of the website, with notes posted on each passage of text, but we would need permission from the Estate to reproduce the text on that kind of scale. We'd essentially be creating a free online ebook, and I don't think the Estate would agree to that. Even using Corey's slides, they are just reproductions of the text, so it would be difficult to get around that barrier.

We can probably quote small excerpts from the text where particularly important, such as our discussions of word usage, without infringing on copyright, but we'll need to build the website around a different structure for now. Who knows whether the LOTR text will end up in the public domain someday (as Mickey Mouse can demonstrate, copyright laws can be changed and extended), but if that happens in my lifetime I will gladly integrate an annotated text into this project!
 

FirstFish

New Member
Can we use an Iframe of the actual episode video of the session? Since we will be making extraction videos and short segments, will these be enough to act as our 'book'?
 

NancyL

Member
Unfortunately I don't think it will be possible to use the LOTR text as a basis for the project. I'd love to create an interactive annotated text as part of the website, with notes posted on each passage of text, but we would need permission from the Estate to reproduce the text on that kind of scale. We'd essentially be creating a free online ebook, and I don't think the Estate would agree to that. Even using Corey's slides, they are just reproductions of the text, so it would be difficult to get around that barrier.

We can probably quote small excerpts from the text where particularly important, such as our discussions of word usage, without infringing on copyright, but we'll need to build the website around a different structure for now. Who knows whether the LOTR text will end up in the public domain someday (as Mickey Mouse can demonstrate, copyright laws can be changed and extended), but if that happens in my lifetime I will gladly integrate an annotated text into this project!
I wonder how much the Estate would charge, and if they gave us a number maybe we could set up a Go Fund Me. OTOH, when you consider the number of readers' guides, maps, et al which have been published as supplemental materials (not even addressing our efforts) i'm afraid the text would be overwhelmed with links. LOL
 
I wonder how much the Estate would charge, and if they gave us a number maybe we could set up a Go Fund Me.
I'm not sure this is really within the scope of what we're trying to achieve with this project. This is my personal opinion, but I think our time and resources would be better spent just setting up a website without the text, instead based on the episode summaries, while including a good text-referencing system so that readers can pinpoint each passage of text we are addressing.

OTOH, when you consider the number of readers' guides, maps, et al which have been published as supplemental materials (not even addressing our efforts) i'm afraid the text would be overwhelmed with links. LOL
Hahaha, that is a great point, it would be a little amusing (but not enormously practical) to have pages of commentary on a single word or sentence in the text. Especially reflecting on our 6-week analysis of "I Sit Beside the Fire and Think" recently, we'd have pages and pages of commentary per line!
 

FirstFish

New Member
In reply to @NancyL about text overwhelmed with links: Hahaha, that is a great point, it would be a little amusing (but not enormously practical) to have pages of commentary on a single word or sentence in the text. Especially reflecting on our 6-week analysis of "I Sit Beside the Fire and Think" recently, we'd have pages and pages of commentary per line!
[/QUOTE]
Yes! This is exactly the 'problem' (not a problem) our wiki must solve. One link to link them all, one search to find them, one page to show them all, and in the wiki spread them. lol
Categories, tags, anchors, links, static pages with dynamic content, prepopulated searches, etc. All this can be drilled down from one tagged phrase or word in the original document, or (if we use a write once, deploy many model) in repeatedly called iterations of the same text. So, the first time you see the text it has normal links with the biggest categories tagged in the text, and an expandable menu of more links and topics in a sidebar, and a search for content referencing this passage in a dedicated search tool, and a TOC of original media related to that passage/slide/commentary (including category articles, topic starters, video and audio from the series, etc.), It is only when you follow one of the TOC items or the sidebar menu items that you begin to see additional in-text links related to the kind of search you followed (if you followed a location and setting link you won't see a theology link, for instance). The breadcrumbs should lead anyone back to the original article or text to follow the other options.
In the case of 'I Sit Beside the Fire and Think' an entire section page should be made and dedicated to showcasing the main categories, the list of episodes, the articles, commentary, current discussion, etc.
 

FirstFish

New Member
I think our time and resources would be better spent just setting up a website without the text, instead based on the episode summaries, while including a good text-referencing system so that readers can pinpoint each passage of text we are addressing.
I wonder if we should get a taxonomy of books, source material, and editions listed and given standardized short-names (like TH, FoTR, HoME-ix) and a standard way of referencing internal content irrespective of edition. One cannot say TH p. 142 and have everyone on the same page across all editions ever printed. Not even TH, ch 4, ¶ 42 will work until we have an authorized digital text that's been numbered. So, we need a 'best practice' and an 'our practice' for referencing the original documents in place of images of text (is it possible that Corey's slides will be allowed outside of the actual video stream?) and in place of quoting passages. We need to determine what length of quote is possible per page of wiki, or per article, or per quote iteration.
 
One link to link them all, one search to find them, one page to show them all, and in the wiki spread them.
Oh my gosh, this should be a subtitle for the wiki! So good!

I like the sound of your 'follow the breadcrumbs' structure. Wow this is going to be a complex website! It's really quite beyond me to imagine potential structures and linking mechanisms for this website, as I'm not trained in website creation of any kind, so it makes me very happy to hear your (and others') ideas on what it could look like!
 

FirstFish

New Member
I’m also inexperienced in website creation, but perhaps our dwarven smiths could put together a small demonstration site, just to give us some better visualization of the possibilities?

OK! We can do this!

Here is the first Sandbox for a CMS and Wiki idea (remember, I took all of 3 hours installing and playing with the site):
https://redbook.crgpublish.com/

The page is anonymous.
First level user login: Volunteer, PW: 217Episodes
Editor level user login: ProofReader, PW: 217Episodes
SubAdmin level user login: BigBoss, PW: 217Episodes

(Yeah, I know, Passwords are repeated. But it's just a Sandbox until it's not needed anymore).
And each level login gives different access. You get the idea.
 
Thanks FirstFish, it is wonderful to have something to look at!
Just by seeing your quick demo, I came up with some possible ideas for layout. I'd love to post them here and get some feedback, and get some additional ideas flowing. Again, not a website-creation person here, so I did the best I could - I made an extremely rough mockup in photoshop (InDesign to be exact). So it's just a PDF, but I think it conveys some of the ideas I have of what to put where. Nothing here is set in stone, just playing with some initial ideas, so I'd love any comments you have!
 

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Flammifer

Well-Known Member
Thanks FirstFish, it is wonderful to have something to look at!
Just by seeing your quick demo, I came up with some possible ideas for layout. I'd love to post them here and get some feedback, and get some additional ideas flowing. Again, not a website-creation person here, so I did the best I could - I made an extremely rough mockup in photoshop (InDesign to be exact). So it's just a PDF, but I think it conveys some of the ideas I have of what to put where. Nothing here is set in stone, just playing with some initial ideas, so I'd love any comments you have!
I suggest possibly adding a section called "Forum discussion" (if there was any) after 'Episode Summary' in the layout mockup.
 
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