Adding, Fleshing Out, and Merging Characters

Rowen

Rowen

New Member
I didn't see a thread like this, elsewhere, so if I'm posting something in the wrong place, or making a double post, apologies, and I can make any changes needed.

There's a lot of minor, or important but non-action related characters (I really don't know how else to describe people like the sons of Feanor, since I don't ever think of them as MAIN characters) that are mentioned briefly, but often have no dialogue or anything, and I was wondering what's the feeling on adding in things to beef them up, or round out the cast (or, well, make the show pass the Bechdel test).

I'm thinking characters like Miriel, Finrod's relationship with Amarie, Elenwe, etc. Plus, there are important elves that we never see, but just hear about (Gil-Galad is one that comes to my mind. Or if we see them, it's really short and brief compared to how important they are).

I know in a lot of shows, merging characters and adding characters is a big deal, and often feels either "I see why they did this" or "Please just stop."
 
I think the idea is to use History of Middle Earth material for inspiration, so where appropriate, drawing on these more nuanced or fleshed-out back stories can be helpful.

I would be strongly opposed to merging the sons of Fëanor, because having 7 sons is...kinda one of his things. He's supposed to have way more kids than some of the other elves, being an overachiever in all realms of creativity. ;) I do acknowledge, though, that the youngest (the twins) do absolutely nothing throughout the entire story. They really are just there. So, deciding to leave them in as 'window-dressing' and (possibly) non-speaking roles is perhaps a mistake. Tolkien toyed with the idea of Nerdanel fighting with Fëanor to leave her *one* of their sons when he left Valinor, and when he refuses, one of the twins (who had snuck back onto the ships intending to go back to Valinor), is burned to death in the fire at Losgar. So, that's one way to get rid of (one of) them! The other 5 have roles within the wider story.

Tolkien himself did the 'merging' thing to a point - anything that happens in Doriath involves Beleg, Mablung and Daeron. Apparently, Thingol's entire kingdom and army can be represented by three elves :p Same with Glorfindel and Ecthelion in Gondolin. If these tales are being flushed out, these seemingly 'minor' characters might take on a much larger role.
 
I feel like we're using the History of Middle Earth, a lot. And that's not bad!!! I really like a lot of the scenes there, and for a lot of scenes (like The Fall of Gondolin) that's where we have to go.

My question, and I know the professor talked a bit about this in the last session, but I called away at the beginning and didn't hear it, was more how to handle that? I have two examples, at least to me, to jump off of.
1) in Colleen McCullough's Masters of Rome series, she combines a number of more minor historical characters and battles, especially during Caesar's campaign in Gaul. I feel like, though, we don't REALLY need to do this, but it's one thing to think of.
2) The Fox in The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe. Added character. I'm still not sure why or what he brought in.

So, I have a feeling that we're going to need to add in and pad out and stuff, and there's a bunch of characters that are named, but we don't see much of, so how to handle that. Like, I'd love to explore more about Miriel and who she was and just WHY she had a kid and then decided that she was too tired to live. Also, like MithLuin talks about Doriath, we're going to have to add characters into places like Doriath or Gondolin, and do we just make up a household and if so, how do we go about that?
 
I've just listened to session 1.5, where this thread got a call-out ;)

I think that in the Silmarillion, there is a lot more expansion and fleshing out, and much less condensing and merging. Tolkien has already done that part for us! Now we need to un-condense it.

Most of the discussion thus far has veered into the realm of fanfic, which does not bother me at all, but is the type of 'adding things' that can annoy book purists in an adaptation. Meaning, with all the fleshing out, we've had to invent scenarios and dilemmas and stances for the characters to take. We've had to tweak the timeline in the (very brief!) description to fit the story we are trying to tell.

I think, though, that we are trying very hard to avoid wholesale invention of characters. This story might have a lot of going to Osgilliath in it, but it does not (yet!) seem to have Alfrid or the Narnian fox. For the most part, we should be able to find canon characters to fill the roles we need for the story.

Our frame narrative, for instance, is wholly invented (Tolkien never suggested that Elrond sat child!Aragorn down and taught him the Valaquenta, nor that Gilraen opposed Master Elrond's approach to Aragorn's education.) We have, however, chosen characters invented by Tolkien and given them the backstories he wrote for them. We have placed our story in the correct place in the timeline of Middle Earth. We have tried to figure out what Gilraen's position would be, as a young widow living among elves. We are using canon details as the skeleton of our story, and then fleshing it out as convenient.

Same with the Valar. 'Oh, we need a non-Melkor bad guy - hey, what about Ungoliant? She would be there.....' We need a character to oppose Melkor - okay, so who are his biggest opponents later? Who are his supporters later? Would there be any reason for any of the Valar to shift their positions? Asking these sorts of questions allows us to sift through the source material and find the seeds of a story...but the story we are trying to tell is largely untold.

For Doriath and Gondolin and Nargothrond and Tirion, we'll need a lot of background characters, but we can flesh out the ones Tolkien named for the main parts.
 
Also, we can do a lot of character differentiation with costumes and character design. PJ's dwarves in the Hobbit are an obvious example (every one must have a different hairdo!), but another example is the Skeksis and the Mystics in the Dark Crystal. Almost all of them are background characters (and in the case of the Mystics, do not have lines). They do all have distinct characteristics, though, so it's not a mass of identical aliens. Certainly early on, all we are going to know about some Valar and Maiar is....what they look like. Until they are part of a scene that highlights them, they won't come to the foreground and make an impression on the audience.

Nessa would likely be 'random dancing girl' until we get to Episode 5. But she can certainly appear on screen prior to her introduction. She could be dancing in the rain in a scene where we introduce rain (or snow). She could be dancing alone in a scene where other people are pairing up. Whatever.

Generic group scenes can highlight characteristics we want to bring out. Here is the (disgusting!) feast scene that shows off the Skeksis:


The beginning of this scene can be summed up as: Watch ugly puppets eat! I don't think it's meant to be taken too seriously, but it is meant to show some of the variety within the group. Some are just concerned with the meal; others are talking politics. Which leads into the actual plot-relevant second half of the scene. They aren't *all* exactly like the leader, and this is one of the few scenes where we hear input from the glutton and the epicure.

I am not suggesting we introduce the Valar in a similar way, but if we have an important council (like the end of episode 2, where Manwë is acclaimed as leader), we can see some of the minor characters being themselves, even if they don't really have much part to play in the rest of the episode. Even if the focus isn't on them, they are there and participating and not all cookie-cutters.

In general, I am a fan of using party scenes to introduce people to an entire culture or group.

The Podlings in 'The Dark Crystal:'

From the same film, a true party scene, and one meant to introduce a culture of people who have not really been seen yet in the film. Our main characters keep center stage, and none of the incidental characters are going to reappear in any meaningful way. We're just learning how they live, not who they are.

The dwarfs (sic :p ) in 'Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs' (Yeah, I know Tolkien was not a fan!)

This one is meant more to showcase the entire cast. Each dwarf has some personality and the viewer is given some insight into who they are. Sure, our main characters among the dwarfs are going to be Grumpy, Doc and Dopey, but we at least see the others in action here. Even the woodland creatures have a consistent background presence. And the viewer would get the distinct impression that the dwarfs are German after watching this, so something of their culture comes through, even if it is just a silly song.

An Irish Party in 3rd class in 'Titanic'

This scene is used as character development for the main characters (Rose is a tough working class girl when she needs to be! umm, yeah, sure, whatever), and the interactions with the background characters are to highlight this. Some of the characters in this scene will reappear later in the film during the sinking of the ship, but if the viewer doesn't remember them, it won't be a big deal. The main point, of course, is to emphasize the class differences between Jack and Rose and show that they come from different worlds. We've seen him muddle through hers; now it's her turn to be clueless in his.
Etc.

All three of these scenes involve introducing a stranger to the group during the party (Jen, Snow White, and Rose), so there is an outsider observing, sharing the novelty with the audience. For the Valar, the newcomer is Melkor (or Tulkas) I guess, so something could be done with that as they would be the main characters during the lamp lighting and wedding, respectively. These would be our first real parties. Prior to that, we can have group scenes, but not proper revelry. Still, I'm not sure that either of them would be 'out of place' enough to fill that role, as we won't have much time to establish how the Valar do things before they get there. But, ah well....

There are plenty of ways to quickly introduce the audience to a whole group of people without naming any of them. But in general...parties, yes ;). They are quick and fun and not people standing around talking on screen. There is music and merriment and possibly shenanigans. They can be done in such a way that they advance the plot, rather than bringing the actual action to a screeching halt.
 
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We definitely need some "Figwits" minor characters or Extras that are no main characters but give the story some depth and continuity...

Silmarillon and Lost Tales are full of many names and minor characters that can give some inspiration...

Ainairos, Anaire, Amarie, Argon, Earwen, Danitharo/Denethor, Elenwe, Elmo, Elulindo, Findis, Finvain, Galadhon, Glorfindel, Gwindor, Indis, Irime, Lenwe, Littleheart/Ilverin, Mahtan, Morwe, Nellas, Nielthi, Nuin, Nurwe, Pengolodh, Rûmil, Saeros, Salgant, Tûvo/Tû, Voronwe...

all of these could give interesting secondary or minor characters that could flesh out the Story.

Annael, Aranwe, Arminas, Daurin, Delin, Duilin,Egalmoth, Elemmakil, Elemmire, Elwen, Enerdhil, Erellont, Evranin, Evromord, Falathar, Galdor, Gelmir, Gereth, Gildor, Gilfanon, Gimli the Gnome, Guilin, Ingil/Ingwion, Inglor, Istarnis, Ithilbor, Ivare, Laiqalasse, Lindo, Loruin, Mablon, Meril, Naimi, Nargil, Narthseg, Ogbar, Penlodh, Rog, Saithnar, Tareg, Torhir, Ufedhin, Uole Kuvion, Valwe...

all these are Names or characters that would be more difficult to integrate into a script, as you somehow have to restrain the plot if you do not want to distract or confuse the audience... however I#d like them to have "cameos" or the names thrown in on and off as a nod to the Legendarium and to have some reappearing Extras, even if they do not have lines.
 
Well, right off the bat, I see some named characters who have made it into the story with decently-sized roles. Denethor, Findis, Indis, Irime, Lenwe, Mahtan, Morwe, Rumil, and Saeros to name a few.
 
I like the way Mahtan was fleshed out so far, Denethor, Findis and the others still appear a bit blurry to me so far... i still really can't imagine what they#re like. But maybe that#ll change with the next casting poll...

and I really would like to see Aikairos, the Spokesman of the Teleri who had been slaughtered and Nielthi, Melian#s Handmaid make an appearance. I could well imagine Aranwe and some of the Gondolin Nobles appearing at an earlier Stage as concillors or lesser Thanes of Feanor too...
 
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