Amazon series: reactions to news and rumours. (Spoiler alert!)

[Haerangil]

Well... i cannot say i am shocked, but i am not quite overwhelmed either, it looked pretty uninteresting to me to be honest.The voiceover is really a problem to me alltogether with the music, it is a weird athmosphere, like it is all too much and something very central missing, but what is it?

 

[Odola]

... it is all too much and something very central missing, but what is it?

For me this would be the elvishness of the elves. And also - as yet - no real story recognizable.

 

[Eryn Lasgalen]

Odola - you know your material much better than I do, but it seems to me the elves very much had free will & chose to fight Morgoth & Sauron during their tenure in middle earth. If one make such a choice, one must surely be striving toward a better future. So I don’t really see anything overtly contradicting your quote from Tolkien above. Also, Arondir’s line “the past is with us all” indicates that the writers are probably aware of the elves’ particular connection to their past.

 

[Eryn Lasgalen]

Looks great. Can't wait.

I love it too but I confess the music took me by surprise. Maybe it’ll grow on me but I’m hoping it’s just a trailer thing (perhaps intended for the wider audience). It didn’t feel very middle earthy. I’m also hoping they’re not sugar coating the harfoots too much.

The images remain spectacular & I love even the new characters - though I might be tied to a stake for saying that on the general social media!

 

[Odola]

If one make such a choice, one must surely be striving toward a better future.

Now, elves do not believe in "a better future" - they are fighting to salvage as much of the past as they can.
They are "fighting the long defeat" and they know it. [A little like a lady using anti-aging creames. ]

This is a paradox the elves wonder about - how humans, having so little future individually, are putting so much hope in it, while for them the future is just dreaded decline they try to slow down.

Actually this is what the elven Rings of Power are for - "to delay the future from happening" for as much as it is doable - by elvish magic and craft.

 

[Haerangil]

It is not like i am actively looking for things only to dislike them... it is many small things adding up and adding up and keeping to add up. Many little , even tiny, distortions might well ruin a bigger picture.

 

[Eryn Lasgalen]

That is very true, Haerangil. I’m looking forward to the show but anxiously keeping my fingers crossed at the same time.

 

[Eryn Lasgalen]

Now, elves do not believe in "a better future" - they are fighting to salvage as much of the past as they can.
They are "fighting the long defeat" and they know it. [A little like a lady using anti-aging creames. ]

This is a paradox the elves wonder about - how humans, having so little future individually, are putting so much hope in it, while for them the future is just dreaded decline they try to slow down.

Actually this is what the elven Rings of Power are for - "to delay the future from happening" for as much as it is doable - by elvish magic and craft.

That’s really interesting, Odola. Do you have a recommendation as to which of Tolkien’s texts I should read to learn more about his thoughts on this?

I have a lot of my own thoughts & questions I’d love to compare to yours & others, although there may have been a thread already on another forum & you guys may have already hashed it out (hard to know as a new member).

Here on a simplistic level, isn’t the prevention of a decline over time equivalent to an improvement of the future?

For example: a 75 year old man might know that he is on an accelerated phase of his own decline. Nevertheless, he may wish to better the future left to him by - say, enrolling in an exercise program or opting to travel with a partner for 6 months.

The decline of elves is far more protracted. But should that make them indifferent to their future or unwilling to take action to affect its course?

 

[Haerangil]

I don't necessarily see it completely that way...

"Idril had a great power of piercing with her
thought the darkness of the hearts of Elves and Men, and the
glooms of the future thereto -- further even than is the common
power of the kindreds of the Eldalie;"

"his (Thingol) coolness does not appear
until his refusal to attend the Feast of Reuniting (Mereth Aderthad)
in the year 20 of the Sun, and arises rather from his insight into
what the future might bring, "

"va! This was an
exclamation or particle expressing the will or wish of the
speaker, meaning according to context 'I will not' or 'Do not! '
Note that it was not used, even in the first person, in a
statement about the speaker's future action, depending on
foresight, or a judgement of the force of circumstances"

"He (Cirdan) is said in the Annals of the Third
Age (c.1000) to have seen further and deeper into the future
than anyone else in Middle-earth.(31) This does not include the
Istari (who came from Valinor), but must include even Elrond,
Galadriel, and Celeborn."

Elves DO think of the future.Many of them are seers and can actively see much into the future.Moreso the high elves how much the Ainur know of the future as much of it was open to see through the Ainulindale...

Even in the second age they start to build new things, new Realms... Nenduial, Harlindon, Eregion, Rivendell, Lorien, Edhellond...
Galadriel herself does most of it.

Yet, they do feel all of this will not last and they wish to preserve... to even conserve if necessary, yet only in places isolated from men as they continue to spread and grow more numerous...

 

[Odola]

That’s really interesting, Odola. Do you have a recommendation as to which of Tolkien’s texts I should read to learn more about his thoughts on this?

Nature of Middle Earth 157 XX "Time and its perception", especially page 163 above and "Notes on Ore" page 220 about human "haste" from the middle down to the bottom of the page.

For example: a 75 year old man might know that he is on an accelerated phase of his own decline. Nevertheless, he may wish to better the future left to him by - say, enrolling in an exercise program or opting to travel with a partner for 6 months.

Humans are mortal as such the hope is in their future generations - which automatically are in the future.
Among elves their eldest are mostly still alive with them and they remember the wonders of their own youths as the greatest that has ever been. Also elvish memory does not dimm and in the end they in a way become all memory.
Elves have children when they find the world to be at peace but the more history progresses the fewer children they tend to have, peacefull times or not. So their young people are few - as such they do not influence much of their culture's outlook - which is more determined by the majority of the older ones - even in the 2nd age. Against that humans have a lot of children and the urgent need to provide a good future for them is paramount.

 

[Haakon]

I don’t think the trailer is supposed to give us a clear sense of exactly what’s going on. The lines spoken seem to be chosen to signal emotion and passion and a sense of urgency in general. I think we have to wait for the show itself for clarity and then go bananas when they get things wrong

 

[Haerangil]

Yeah it is not supposed to.But it should IMHO. Me and many other people could get along better with a trailer that did that. And i don't think i already went bananas.

 

[Odola]

Actually this I do find funny:

A little like Rosie reprimanding Sam after his return - but pooor Elrond...

 

[Haerangil]

Yes it is funny! Nothing like i would imagine female dwarves to behave outside their own private circles... but it is still funny. More d&d than Tolkien dwarves though, but nothing that would bother me too much.But as i said, things add up.

 

[Eryn Lasgalen]

and

Thank you so much, Odola.

 

[Ilana Mushin]

I don't think the last trailer was aimed at people who already know Tolkien. The references to a higher power, and to 'faith' over 'fear' by Galadriel to me sends Christian vibes and is possibly aimed at showing that this show fundamentally sticks to Tolkiens view of things. Will they stick with 'faith' as a translation of 'estel'? Time will tell (I prefer 'high hope') myself.

Corey has been very positive about the first two episodes so far - but it's a bit like reading the first chapter of a book (too early to make a value judgement). Can't wait to see for myself.

 

[Haerangil]

That higher powers thing was almost too obvious christian right into the eye..

When did Corey watch them and talk about it?

 

[MithLuin]

He went to the premiere in New York City, and discussed his first impressions on the Rings and Realms YouTube channel.

 

[Rob Harding]

That higher powers thing was almost too obvious christian right into the eye..

When did Corey watch them and talk about it?

I didn’t see at as Christian. Just took it as a reference to faith as a concept

 

[Haerangil]

She didn't say the name Eru or Illuvatar, but my reaction was similar to Ilanas "This is religion!" I was just not that positive about it, not because of the concept per se but because it felt so rubbed right under my nose.