Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
Yeap, in all categories checked there the atlatl was a neat compromise between a spear - stong but cumbersone to use and difficult (limited in numer) to transport in a forest and a "primitive arrow". And - as the article states - an atlatl dart is capable to bring down "even the toughest game -- assuming it is in the effective range" - which said range is naturally limited in a forest anyway - due to all the trees standing around.
"No one of the three factors we looked at is an indicator of hunting effectiveness by itself. All the weapons listed have been used for killing, and all have proven themselves effective. Atlatl darts do not have as much kinetic energy or momentum as firearms, but have a better sectional density. They are higher in all three factors than arrows, and arrows are known to be very effective weapons. There is very little you can't bring down with a well-placed arrow.
Is an atlatl as powerful as a .30-06? No. It has less kinetic energy (force of impact) and less momentum (penetration). It doesn't have anywhere near the effective range and is much harder to aim. But for tens of thousands of years, it was the primary hunting weapon on earth. Dart points have been found in mammoth bones, and they have been tested on modern elephant carcasses with impressive results. While it may not be as effective as a rifle, it is certainly effective enough. Just how dead do you need your supper?"
Great! Slavs. And Antes (ancient Ukrainians). You do know how to approach me from my week side Halstein. Slavs do have a long guerilla tradition - in contrary to the Celts. But here we have exactly the limitiation of numbers I've spoken about - "two to each man". Those javelins described seems to have been cerit/djerid/jerid/jereed-like: Djerid (weapon) - Wikipedia https://worcester.emuseum.com/internal/media/dispatcher/36543/resize:format=full;jsessionid=F7ED9951138AACF942832C0206101295
which the Slavs have used historically also. [Here short old very low quality video showing and explaining a Slavic jerid - regrettably only in Polish - build, wood (hazel or ash), length, weighting and the way to throw it Dziryt budowa - YouTube - sorry, this was the best I could find].
Beyond that generally the woods South of the Danube tend not to be very dense. "densely wooded, narrow, and steep places" seems more like ravines than real woods.
And as : "Short bows naturally have shorter draw lengths than long bows" (Short Bow Vs. Long Bow (sportsrec.com) ) and "Arrow length refers to draw length plus about 2 inches. " (Draw Length vs Arrow Length Explained - Archery for Beginners ) the use of "short arrows" does exclude the use of a longbow - sorry Haerangil - at least in this reported case - which makes sense for a wooded area - where the possible range is naturally limited by the trees anyway. And as I've stated before, even a short arrow is enough to bring down a human, but not necessary an orc, who are generally more robust.
But I am all for the use of forged metal jerids in Dorthonion - but on the orcs' part. Orcs are strong enough to carry bundles of those on their shoulders. And metal jerids do also look very nice - even when imagined covered in Blackspeech runes.
No idea. Do not know if poison does work on elves - if not, orcs might have some resistance to them - or maybe not - as they are corrupted. But orcs could have been immunised to the poisons of Angband during their warrior training.
I am sure Angband has a research bio lab where all kinds of poisons and pestillences are invented, lead by some fallen Maiar of Estë and Irmo.
So, I live in a heavily forested area where people hunt at range all the time including with bows. Forests are not a problem for bowhunters, or even bow snipers. And just because humans might not be as preternaturally good at archery as Elves does not mean they would not utilize it to the proficiency at which they were capable.
Forgive me if I've missed it in all of this, but has anyone come up with an example of a steel-forging culture that was still using an atatl?
Also an atatl and accompanying darts have the issue of being nearly as cumbersome as a spear, but not as versatile, not as useful in as many situations. I definitely don't see that as something Beren carry with him in a situation where he could not carry a spear.