Caranthir

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
I know there was a tendency to pick 'older' actors for the original elves at Cuivienen, but I agree that adult elves are more or less ageless, and it's fine to cast a younger actor as the father of an older actor. We don't need to make each succeeding generation successively younger. Some of our older actors were likely too old, but be that as it may, we can use stage makeup to a point to keep them ageless.

However, for the Princes of the Noldor, we've tried to stick to the 25-40 age range, not nominating any actors older than 40, I don't think. A guy who is 42 and has a baby face/looks young for his age could work out fine, but you know, we should try not to go too old - we will need these characters for several seasons, and they'll be at least five years older before we kill them off in most cases. We will need to keep Caranthir until the sack of Doriath, which is after the 5th battle, after Beren and Luthien, and after Turin and Tuor's stories. Meaning, we'll introduce him as an adult late in Season 2, and likely kill him off sometime in Season 9 or so. So, yes, finding someone no older than about 35 for Caranthir is probably a good idea. And, because of the wish to avoid any 'brattiness' in his appearance, likely at least late 20s. So, someone born in the 1982-1990 range would be ideal (I think).

It's not important whether the actor for Caranthir be older or younger than the other Sons of Fëanor. They are all adults by the time we get to Season 3, and we would have used child actors for any scenes when they're kids.

Do people want to nominate actors for Caranthir to run by the Hosts this Friday, or should we save the casting for Caranthir for next season? I'm happy to work with people either way; just let me know.
 
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Faelivrin

Well-Known Member
Remember we may need to keep Caranthir alive until the Third Kinslaying, if we can't keep Amros alive that long.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
True; we'll have to see how that goes. But the Third Kinslaying will likely happen in the same season as the Second Kinslaying, as not much else happens in between. Regardless, we'll need him to look like an elf six years from now as well, so we shouldn't pick someone at the upper end of our age range.

So far, the nominations I'm seeing that work for age and build are:

Travis Fimmel (age 39) https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1379938/
Jason Momoa (age 38, soon to be 39)
Sebastian Stan (age 35, soon to be 36)
Adam Driver (age 34)
Alan Ritchson (age 33) https://www.imdb.com/name/nm2024927
Jai Courtney (age 31)
Alexander Ludwig (age 26) https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1573253/

*Edited to add Ruth's suggestions*

'Too old'?
Tom Hardy (age 40)
Pablo Schreiber (age 40)
Joe Manganiello (age 41)

I feel comfortable cutting out any 40+ suggestions, but if people feel strongly about nominating them, we can certainly run it by the Hosts.
 
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Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
True; we'll have to see how that goes. But the Third Kinslaying will likely happen in the same season as the Second Kinslaying, as not much else happens in between. Regardless, we'll need him to look like an elf six years from now as well, so we shouldn't pick someone at the upper end of our age range.

So far, the nominations I'm seeing that work for age and build are:

Travis Fimmel (age 39) https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1379938/
Jason Momoa (age 38, soon to be 39)
Sebastian Stan (age 35, soon to be 36)
Adam Driver (age 34)
Alan Ritchson (age 33) https://www.imdb.com/name/nm2024927
Alexander Ludwig (age 26) https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1573253/

*Edited to add Ruth's suggestions*

'Too old'?
Tom Hardy (age 40)
Pablo Schreiber (age 40)
Joe Manganiello (age 41)

I feel comfortable cutting out any 40+ suggestions, but if people feel strongly about nominating them, we can certainly run it by the Hosts.
I also suggested Jai Courtney (age 31).
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
What about Joe Dempsie? https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1478079/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t40 upload_2018-7-24_14-3-51.jpeg He has played a blacksmith and it didn't look bad. He has a bit of a good guy aura and it's of course a matter of taste if you like that in Caranthir - and will he be able to pull off playing the Caranthir we want? Can he be enough of a bad guy? I Think he probably could but I'm not sure. Also, he could be a bit too Young.
Also, Alexander Hogh Andersen would be great (but he's been suggested to play Maeglin) https://www.imdb.com/name/nm5405979/ upload_2018-7-24_14-2-31.jpegHe's kind of young though so maybe he's too much of a brat and would be better as Maeglin after all.
 

Faelivrin

Well-Known Member
I honestly still like momoa. He's not a bad actor, regardless what to say about some of the roles he has been cast for in the past. Plus he would challenge our idea as the elf: a tall white beanpole.momoa is just not that.he has a very interesting face too.
I'd be OK with somebody of the same skintone, if they were a bit less buff. I'm wondering if you have anyone else in mind?
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Yes, if presenting candidates to the execs is possible, I say do it!
We have a lot of options now, and no consensus, so I think we should probably just save this casting for Season 4, and then let people nominate and vote like always. I don't want to give them a list longer than 4 to choose from unless there has been some ranking/criteria, I don't think.
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
So I finally listened to the podcast and to what Dr O said. The important thing seems to be that Caranthir has to be a hothead who isn’t afraid to take or give a punch, should it be (more or less) necessary. He should have some muscular build but not like Momoa, for example.

Maybe (I’m not sure, I haven’t really seen the guy) Tyler Hoechlin. Sorry about the Superman suit. Has anyone seen him act?
FCDFA84F-0463-4CAA-A6A2-C53B32C28F64.jpeg
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
So I finally listened to the podcast and to what Dr O said. The important thing seems to be that Caranthir has to be a hothead who isn’t afraid to take or give a punch, should it be (more or less) necessary. He should have some muscular build but not like Momoa, for example.

Maybe (I’m not sure, I haven’t really seen the guy) Tyler Hoechlin. Sorry about the Superman suit. Has anyone seen him act?
View attachment 1884
Unfortunately, the only thing I know him from is Michael Sullivan Jr. in Road to Perdition.
 

Faelivrin

Well-Known Member
Why should we keep him alive that long?
Because if the Hosts kill off Amros, then the unique role he plays in the last chapters of the Silmarillion has to be played by somebody else. It can't be Maglor or Maedhros, who have a very different role to play. It's been talked about in the Feanorian Storylines thread, I believe.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Because if the Hosts kill off Amros, then the unique role he plays in the last chapters of the Silmarillion has to be played by somebody else. It can't be Maglor or Maedhros, who have a very different role to play. It's been talked about in the Feanorian Storylines thread, I believe.
Well, as I understand it, Amras doesn't play any significant role in the Third Kinslaying, it's mainly mentioned that he was KIA there, while Celegorm leads the Second Kinslaying. In canon, Caranthir is KIA in the Second Kinslaying along with Celegorm and Curufin, with Celegorm and Dior killing each other.
 

Faelivrin

Well-Known Member
Amros instigates the entire Kinslaying, and kidnaps Earendil's sons, while Maedhros and Maglor want to prevent it. (This is more clear in the Annals of Beleriand than in the vaguer writing in the 1977 version of the Quenta.) If the Hosts don't let us keep Amros alive like in the book, we will have to use Caranthir for his role instead.

Certainly I would rather tell it like in the books. I always want to. We may not be allowed to, so we need to keep that in mind when planning how long Caranthir's actor needs to look "young." I also don't want to assume that the Third Kinslaying will be in the same season as the Second. The more options we leave room for, the better equipped we'll be to deal with unexpected changes of plan.
 
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Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Amros instigates the entire Kinslaying, and kidnaps Earendil's sons, while Maedhros and Maglor want to prevent it. (This is more clear in the Annals of Beleriand than in the vaguer writing in the 1977 version of the Quenta.) If the Hosts don't let us keep Amros alive like in the book, we will have to use Caranthir for his role instead.

Certainly I would rather tell it like in the books. I always want to. We may not be allowed to, so we need to keep that in mind when planning how long Caranthir's actor needs to look "young." I also don't want to assume that the Third Kinslaying will be in the same season as the Second. The more options we leave room for, the better equipped we'll be to deal with unexpected changes of plan.
If Amros/Amras kidnaps Earendil's sons, who kills him? It's part of the books that he was killed in the Third Kinslaying? And if he is killed while kidnapping them, it was most likely done by a refugee, which begs the question as to why they weren't recovered.
 
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