A few passages from the prologue, "concerning hobbits":
"in ancient days they were, as a rule, shy of 'the Big Folk', as they call us"
"they are a little people smaller than Dwarves: less stout and stocky, even when they are not actually much shorter. Their height is variable, ranging between two and four feet of our measure. They seldom now reach three feet; but thy heave dwindled, they say, and in ancient days they were taller."
It seems clear to me that the prologue is not presumed to be part of the Red Book of Westmarch, but is created by a modern author as a preface to text of that book. By "the Big Folk", I assume it means men. Based on these passages, it seems unlikely that Hobbits would build their homes to accomodate men. But they would probably build them to fit a full range of adult Hobbits, from two to four feet in height.
It seems like in ancient days, at the time of the events related in The Red Book, hobbits might have attained four feet in height, but now they have dwindled, and rarely reach three feet. I assume that means that subsequent generations of hobbits were less tall on average than their forefathers. It does not really help us know what size Bilbo might have been, or Frodo or Sam, except that they were probably less than four feet in height.
It's been suggested that Tolkien originally meant that the elves who did not depart to the west would likewise have reduced stature. I wonder if that would have applied to an individual; would Elrond be less tall today if he had lingered, and not departed into the west? Or would he merely, "forget and be forgotten", dwindling to "a rustic of dell and cave". Perhaps one can only remember so much, and with the passing years; the old memories are forgotten or at least there is a risk of them being forgotten. As I recall, Asimov considers that same problem for one like R. Daneel Olivaw, who like the elves, is doomed to live forever.
Anyway, back to the subject of size - at the beginning of "A long-expected party", Gandalf arrives driving a cart of fireworks, which he unloads at Bag End with the help of Bilbo and some dwarves, and then he "disappeared inside with Bilbo, and the door was shut." Gandalf is desribed as an "old man", but does that mean that he has the stature of men, that he was as much taller than Bilbo as men like Aragorn or Boromir would have been? Did the hobbit children who watched the unloading of the cart find themselves amazed that one of the "Big Folk" somehow managed to fit inside the door of Bag End? And since hobbits are shy of the "Big Folk", was Gandalf not really considered among the "Big Folk"? Or was Gandalf closer in size to a tall hobbit, so he would not be considered one of the "Big Folk"?
Next we read "Inside Bag End, Bilbo and Gandalf were sitting at the open window of a small room." Gandalf is sitting in a small room? If he's one of the "Big Folk", how does he fit? Note that Bag End was built by Bilbo's father, who I understand to be one very unlikely to build a house to accomodate any outsider, especially one of the "Big Folk". Perhaps his wife, the famous Belladona Took, persuaded him to build it so she could welcome the taller hobbits who were members of her family. Is this what I should suppose?
Anyway, a few weeks later, after Bilbo performs his stunt at his farewell party, he goes back to his hole and then into his study, preparing to depart. At first puts the envelope with ring on the mantelpiece, but then pockets it. And "at that moment the door oopened and Gandalf came quickly in". For this description to work (and that which follows), Gandalf cannot be the size of one of the "Big Folk". When we find him "sitting down in a chair", the picture I visualize is not of an outlandishly big person in a chair and home where he does not fit; instead I see him fitting as as well as a tall hobbit would fit. (Note that I mean "outlandish" the same way Tolkien used the term - that which is outside the local land, people, and experience.)
So now we come to my questions: what does the text of "The Lord of the Rings" tell us about the stature of Gandalf? I've only provided a few examples here, but I find them compelling. Is the subsequent text consistent with these first descriptions? Did Tolkien provide any other information outside The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings? If so, is it consistent with what I've considered here, or if not, how are we to reconcile the differences? Perhaps I am totally misreading the text. Has Corey considered this question as he has examined the text? If these isues have already been considered, please let me know where.
P.S. Since writing this, I spent a couple of hours today visiting a nephew's home where I had not been before. Chatting with one of the kids, I learned that they had a small "hobbit house" under the basement stairs for little kids to play in. The girl I talked to said that it was too small for her since she was nearly five feet tall. Hence my point: for someone to fit in a hobbit house, be able to quickly pass through a dooway into a room, and sit comfortably in a chair, they probably need to be less than five feet tall.
"in ancient days they were, as a rule, shy of 'the Big Folk', as they call us"
"they are a little people smaller than Dwarves: less stout and stocky, even when they are not actually much shorter. Their height is variable, ranging between two and four feet of our measure. They seldom now reach three feet; but thy heave dwindled, they say, and in ancient days they were taller."
It seems clear to me that the prologue is not presumed to be part of the Red Book of Westmarch, but is created by a modern author as a preface to text of that book. By "the Big Folk", I assume it means men. Based on these passages, it seems unlikely that Hobbits would build their homes to accomodate men. But they would probably build them to fit a full range of adult Hobbits, from two to four feet in height.
It seems like in ancient days, at the time of the events related in The Red Book, hobbits might have attained four feet in height, but now they have dwindled, and rarely reach three feet. I assume that means that subsequent generations of hobbits were less tall on average than their forefathers. It does not really help us know what size Bilbo might have been, or Frodo or Sam, except that they were probably less than four feet in height.
It's been suggested that Tolkien originally meant that the elves who did not depart to the west would likewise have reduced stature. I wonder if that would have applied to an individual; would Elrond be less tall today if he had lingered, and not departed into the west? Or would he merely, "forget and be forgotten", dwindling to "a rustic of dell and cave". Perhaps one can only remember so much, and with the passing years; the old memories are forgotten or at least there is a risk of them being forgotten. As I recall, Asimov considers that same problem for one like R. Daneel Olivaw, who like the elves, is doomed to live forever.
Anyway, back to the subject of size - at the beginning of "A long-expected party", Gandalf arrives driving a cart of fireworks, which he unloads at Bag End with the help of Bilbo and some dwarves, and then he "disappeared inside with Bilbo, and the door was shut." Gandalf is desribed as an "old man", but does that mean that he has the stature of men, that he was as much taller than Bilbo as men like Aragorn or Boromir would have been? Did the hobbit children who watched the unloading of the cart find themselves amazed that one of the "Big Folk" somehow managed to fit inside the door of Bag End? And since hobbits are shy of the "Big Folk", was Gandalf not really considered among the "Big Folk"? Or was Gandalf closer in size to a tall hobbit, so he would not be considered one of the "Big Folk"?
Next we read "Inside Bag End, Bilbo and Gandalf were sitting at the open window of a small room." Gandalf is sitting in a small room? If he's one of the "Big Folk", how does he fit? Note that Bag End was built by Bilbo's father, who I understand to be one very unlikely to build a house to accomodate any outsider, especially one of the "Big Folk". Perhaps his wife, the famous Belladona Took, persuaded him to build it so she could welcome the taller hobbits who were members of her family. Is this what I should suppose?
Anyway, a few weeks later, after Bilbo performs his stunt at his farewell party, he goes back to his hole and then into his study, preparing to depart. At first puts the envelope with ring on the mantelpiece, but then pockets it. And "at that moment the door oopened and Gandalf came quickly in". For this description to work (and that which follows), Gandalf cannot be the size of one of the "Big Folk". When we find him "sitting down in a chair", the picture I visualize is not of an outlandishly big person in a chair and home where he does not fit; instead I see him fitting as as well as a tall hobbit would fit. (Note that I mean "outlandish" the same way Tolkien used the term - that which is outside the local land, people, and experience.)
So now we come to my questions: what does the text of "The Lord of the Rings" tell us about the stature of Gandalf? I've only provided a few examples here, but I find them compelling. Is the subsequent text consistent with these first descriptions? Did Tolkien provide any other information outside The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings? If so, is it consistent with what I've considered here, or if not, how are we to reconcile the differences? Perhaps I am totally misreading the text. Has Corey considered this question as he has examined the text? If these isues have already been considered, please let me know where.
P.S. Since writing this, I spent a couple of hours today visiting a nephew's home where I had not been before. Chatting with one of the kids, I learned that they had a small "hobbit house" under the basement stairs for little kids to play in. The girl I talked to said that it was too small for her since she was nearly five feet tall. Hence my point: for someone to fit in a hobbit house, be able to quickly pass through a dooway into a room, and sit comfortably in a chair, they probably need to be less than five feet tall.
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