Concerns about season 5

Yes, and the look on his face is very much....death, what is that? in the Boromir death scene. There's clear confusion and I'm-an-outsider going on there.
 
Look, I'm human, and I've been to a ton of funerals over the course of my life (memorably, three in one week once, even). But I have never been with someone in the moment of their death (watched them die), nor have I ever seen a dead body in person that was not professionally prepared for burial or in some other way preserved or reduced to bones.

I don't hang out in morgues, I don't visit crime scenes, I've never been on a recent battlefield, and I don't work in a field that brings me into contact with dead bodies. I've never handled a cadaver.

Dead animals, sure. I've taught high school biology, and thus led classes on various dissections. I grew up on a farm. But not dead people.

But that is something that is very unusual about modern American society. Contact with the dead is something we are (typically) very well protected and insulated from unless we're involved in a field that brings us into contact with the dying or recently dead. And while it is certainly possible to sit with a loved one while they are dying...it is not something we've all done. My mother has done that exactly twice in her life, and she's in her mid-to-late 60's. I have met adults who have never been to a single funeral, ever.

So, given that...if we're told that a character is insulated from death because their family and society is made up of a bunch of immortal beings who can't get sick and don't die of natural causes...then...it is certainly possible to imagine them as *very* insulated from any experience of death or the grief that accompanies it. But of course the reality is that Tolkien's elves do die. Elves are familiar with death and grief and that is part of their cultural reality as well. What they are not familiar with are sickness or old age. That is alien to them.
 
We certainly have potential for that in the coming season since we have Men dying; five or six generations will pass by the Dagor Bragollach, and we have Aredhel, which will undoubtedly have some effect on Idril.
 
I have an idea for Season 5: do we reveal something about Glaurung in Season 5? I suggest a revelation that he manipulated/hypnotized someone into letting him out, like Gothmog, or that Gothmog let him out because he was bored and wanted a little action; there's been little for him to do for the last 200 years.

For Season 6 as a A Lays of Beleriand throwback: It's mentioned that Boldog is sent by Morgoth to seize Luthien shortly before Beren arrives. How about we have a musical number ala Hellfire of Morgoth lusting for Luthien that ends with him sending Boldog?

 
I have an idea for Season 5: do we reveal something about Glaurung in Season 5? I suggest a revelation that he manipulated/hypnotized someone into letting him out, like Gothmog, or that Gothmog let him out because he was bored and wanted a little action; there's been little for him to do for the last 200 years.

For Season 6 as a A Lays of Beleriand throwback: It's mentioned that Boldog is sent by Morgoth to seize Luthien shortly before Beren arrives. How about we have a musical number ala Hellfire of Morgoth lusting for Luthien that ends with him sending Boldog?


We will likely have to tell the as-yet-untold story of Glaurung at some point this season to explain what was left out of S04.

As to the Morgoth Lust-Ballad, that's a big no from me.
 
We will likely have to tell the as-yet-untold story of Glaurung at some point this season to explain what was left out of S04.

As to the Morgoth Lust-Ballad, that's a big no from me.
How much should we tell? I'm prepared to just tell the story of his coming and leave it at that, lest we find too much material and have to split into two seasons like we did with Season 4.

Why not? I'd like to see what sort of way Morgoth conveys his lust for Luthien, a thought in his head that he had never thought before (except when Boldog is sent to seize Luthien).
 
How much should we tell? I'm prepared to just tell the story of his coming and leave it at that, lest we find too much material and have to split into two seasons like we did with Season 4.

That's pretty much all we need. Just who he is and what he's doing there.


Why not? I'd like to see what sort of way Morgoth conveys his lust for Luthien, a thought in his head that he had never thought before (except when Boldog is sent to seize Luthien).

I'd say that conveying his inner feeling through acting is the best move. The least ... icky.
 
While I agree that there should be absolutely no lust-ballads in SilmFilm, "Hellfire" happens to be one of my favorite songs. I couldn't not attempt a parody. :)

Most of the lyrics about Esmeralda pretty much work as they are for Luthien. However, I thought Celegorm had more parallels to Frollo than Morgoth, so I made him the singer. Plus, I tried to approximate the Latin sung by the chorus of hooded phantoms in Quenya.

CELEGORM
A Varda Aistana,
You know I am a righteous Elf.
Of my virtue, I am justly proud.
(Ar Átaremma)
A Varda Aistana,
You know I always hold myself
Above the common, weak, licentious crowd.
(Pan nányë úcarindo)
Then tell me, a Varda,
Why I see her dancing there,
Why her smoldering eyes still scorch my soul.
(tennanyar nar ulcë)
I feel her, I see her.
The Sun caught in her raven hair
Is blazing in me out of all control.
(quettar ar cardanyar)

Like fire,
Hellfire
This fire in my skin.
This burning
Desire
Is turning me to sin.

*Hooded phantoms appear*

It’s not my fault!
(Cámanya ná!)
I’m not to blame!
(Cámanya ná!)
It is the Sinda girl,
The witch, who sent this flame.
(Cámanya saucarya ná!)

It’s not my fault!
(Cámanya ná!)
If Melkor’s song
(Cámanya ná!)
The wicked music marring
Arda is so strong.
(Cámanya saucarya ná!)

*Hooded phantoms disappear*


Protect me, a Varda.
Don’t let this siren cast her spell.
Don’t let her fire sear my flesh and bone.
Destroy Tinúviel,
And let her taste the fires of Hell.
Or else let her be mine and mine alone.

*knocking on door*

CURUFIN
Celegorm, Lúthien has escaped.

CELEGORM
What?

CURUFIN
She’s nowhere in Nargothrond. She’s gone.

CELEGORM
But how? I… Never mind. Get out, you idiot. I’ll find her! I’ll find her if I have to burn down all of Doriath.

Hellfire,
Dark fire
Now Sinda, it’s your turn.
Chose me or
Your pyre.
Be mine or you will burn!

(Eru órava)
Eru’s mercy on her.
(Eru órava)
Eru’s mercy on me.
(Eru órava)
But she will be mine,
Or she will burn!
 
It is certainly true that all characters who interact with Lúthien will respond to her either with selfless love or with possessive lust. But...what this means is different for each character. Melian, Beren, and Huan all love Lúthien, but obviously they don't love her in the same way. Thingol and Celegorm both lock Lúthien up, but their motives are different.

Morgoth's interest in Lúthien certainly falls on the possessive lust side of the scale, much more so than Celegorm or Daeron. But what does that mean for him? Morgoth talks about crushing her like a flower, and slaking his thirst. What he's most after, what he's hungry for...is the light that Varda put in the stars. He's seeking distraction from the torment of the burn the silmarils put in his hand. This...does not convey to your typical language of lust or seduction. He's basically threatening to pull the wings off an insect and then squash it...and she's the insect. Lúthien is going to sing and dance for Morgoth's court, and that is going to be a creepy scene. No matter how we depict it. Morgoth's decision to leave her free to sing and dance (rather than immediately casting her in a dungeon) should be seen as him toying with her. Lúthien should have plenty of reason to fear for her own safety throughout this.

But at the end of the day, we have not yet determined what parts of the Lay of Leithien we plan to incorporate into the Beren and Lúthien story, or how closely we're sticking to the published Silmarillion.
 
To combine the two, we could have Boldog lead an army against Doriath, it’s defeated and he is killed, security is tightened and this adds emphasis to the idea that Beren is driven by fate, for fate alone can penetrate the Girdle of Melian. Besides, Thingol will have little to do until Daeron betrays Luthien and Beren is taken to Menegroth.
 
Last edited:
To combine the two, we could have Boldog lead an army against Doriath, it’s defeated and he is killed, security is tightened and this adds emphasis to the idea that Beren is driven by fate, for fate alone can penetrate the Girdle of Melian. Besides, Thingol will have little to do until Daeron betrays Luthien and Beren is taken to Menegroth.

That seems a particularly anti-climactic way to kill off Boldog, no?
 
Back
Top