Did the Valar kill Frodo's parents?

Johannes

Member
Well, you know, "...Bilbo was meant to find the Ring, and not by its maker. In which case you also were meant to have it.". The Valar needed the Ring to be inherited by Frodo somehow (or Otho would have gotten it), so they needed Bilbo to adopt him... you see where I'm going with this. They did die under mysterious circumstances. Did Ulmo off Drogo and Primula!?
 
Well, you know, "...Bilbo was meant to find the Ring, and not by its maker. In which case you also were meant to have it.". The Valar needed the Ring to be inherited by Frodo somehow (or Otho would have gotten it), so they needed Bilbo to adopt him... you see where I'm going with this. They did die under mysterious circumstances. Did Ulmo off Drogo and Primula!?

Not necessary, Bilbo could just leave it to Frodo in his will, as Bilbo liked Frodo best from all his kin... The Sackvilles had no claim on the ring itself, only on Bag End.
 
Valar or Eru? It is hard to know who is operating 'Providence'. Or, maybe, just bad luck? Hobbits, (except some Stoors) don't seem to be very capable when it comes to boats.
 
Well, it seems to me quite clear that all the small (or, as you might say, the chincks in Fates armour) Providence-working are Illuvatars doing, and the larger ones ,like the wind from the south at the siege of Minas Tirith, is the Valars doing. Then we have the things inbetween (the prophetic dream, i am looking at you) that is undecided.
 
Well, it seems to me quite clear that all the small (or, as you might say, the chincks in Fates armour) Providence-working are Illuvatars doing, and the larger ones ,like the wind from the south at the siege of Minas Tirith, is the Valars doing.
Illuvatar is far more subtle and far-seeing than the Valar, and can change fates with the lightest touch. The Valar are rather clumsy at this (c.f. all the physical destruction it took for them to defeat Morgoth).

But also, it seems to me that Illuvatar's plans -- unlike the Valar's! -- have incredible flexibility and built-in redundancy. Had Frodo's parents lived, he'd have wound up with Bilbo somehow anyway, I expect. At least for long enough for Bilbo to become fond enough of him to leave him the Ring. Can Fate actually ever fail in Middle Earth? Could Frodo have refused the quest? It's not clear to me whether that is really possible (though it's certain that it was Frodo's free will to accept the quest). Paradoxical, perhaps, but often "paradox" is only due to our limited point of view. . .
--
Uh oh. First you start abstracting, pretty soon you're using recursion, and next thing you know you're using recursion.
 
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