Door of Morning

MithLuin

MithLuin

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In Episode 13, we see the doorway that human spirits pass through on their way to leave the circles of the world.
We are calling this location the "Door of Morning"
We've suggested that no one can see what is on the other side of this doorway...but even moreso, each person sees it differently.
In the presence of this gateway, human souls are silent, and they 'bleed' towards the doorway to indicate that they are inexorably drawn towards it.
The structure around this doorway may be created by Námo, but the door itself is part of the structure of the world.
We want the doorway to look like an emptiness, not a door.


Here's a quick sketch of Beren waiting by the Door for Lúthien:
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Suggestions for this location?
 
I am trying to think of it as the opposite of the Gate of Truth in Fullmetal Alchemist. There, the door is ornate, difficult to open and close...but the space around it is blank, containing no physical objects.

(And, yes, this scene is a 'wait for me!' scene as well - they're brothers, though.)

We're trying to design a gateway, not a door that opens and closes.
 
I’m thinking ‘door’ can be less literal and more of a ‘this is the best word we have’. Perhaps a black hole. But with some visual elements to make it distinct. Perhaps a white hole? Drawing in darkness. A corona of shadow around a pulsing light.
 
Well, not much I can do to produce a pulsing light in Microsoft Paint, but maybe something like this? The shadows being drawn in would be similar to the bleeding effect on the soul.

1682209599130.png
 
Here's an idea - not really able to draw this easily with my skills but the general idea is that there's not necessarily even something right there - rather there's something distant off in the horizon, something that maybe looks like the Sun (I know this is in the west so this would be evening and not morning... but idk). The stream of people going through go down into the water and don't rise up - but maybe that's a little creepy for the benevolent door Eru has provided to the unknown afterlife. Maybe you can see people going through the door on the other end?

door of morning.png
 
kanji_d said:
Here's an idea - not really able to draw this easily with my skills but the general idea is that there's not necessarily even something right there - rather there's something distant off in the horizon, something that maybe looks like the Sun (I know this is in the west so this would be evening and not morning... but idk). The stream of people going through go down into the water and don't rise up - but maybe that's a little creepy for the benevolent door Eru has provided to the unknown afterlife. Maybe you can see people going through the door on the other end?

View attachment 4871
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Not sure if this could be someting inside of Mandos and limited space at which's treshold Beren can tarry? Seems more to me like a vast landscape outside?
 
Odola said:
Not sure if this could be someting inside of Mandos and limited space at which's treshold Beren can tarry? Seems more to me like a vast landscape outside?
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I had modeled it on Marie's earlier drawings where there appeared to be a beach, almost, looking over the outer ocean. But the idea I had I think works better if there's more of a landscape from which to see the door in the distance.
 
kanji_d said:
I had modeled it on Marie's earlier drawings where there appeared to be a beach, almost, looking over the outer ocean. But the idea I had I think works better if there's more of a landscape from which to see the door in the distance.
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While there are drawings that show The Halls of Mandos like in an another dimension without a real roof still the sea is outside of those usually?

1682313473149.png
 
Does a Hall need to be a hall. There’s this story of a king boasting that he has the greatest dining hall and the grandest banqueting table and the most beautifully painted ceiling. And so another man states he has it better and the king thinks he’s a liar so the man invites him to join a feast. The king arrives and there is no castle, nothing but a blanket on a hill. And the man says, is there a better hall than this, and spreads his arm to show the wide world. Is there a better table than this, and they sit upon the hill in the moonlight. Is there a more beautifully ceiling? Points to the stars in the havens?

My point is, what is the grandest ‘hall’ we can conceive? While also being distinct from the domains of other Ainu?

How about this scene from American Gods as an example:

Maybe we’re talking about a vast plain under swirling auroras with a burning white opening at the heart of it, beside an endless, gently lapping ocean. Or a great suspended wave:

And Mandos is there. Waiting.
 
Rob Harding said:
Does a Hall need to be a hall.
My point is, what is the grandest ‘hall’ we can conceive? While also being distinct from the domains of other Ainu?
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They must be distinct from the surroundings and there must a clear separation from the areas of the living as the living cannot contact the death directly nor even see them from afar. The Halls were placed in the far North near the encircling sea - but Christopher Tolkien moved them to the West of Aman in the Silmarillion. The Halls double as a prison and there has to be a dwelling where the reembodied Miriel might live with Vairë.
 
The shore idea comes from Tolkien's writing. Brian read the passage from the Silmarillion during the script discussion. We don't have to keep that, and could have the doorway appear in either indoor or outdoor space. But I agree that the living cannot reach this place.
 
Showing the living cannot reach a place is hard. Because what you’re doing there is wanting to show a negative. So you could show living people trying to reach a place but not being able.

But what would that even be? It almost feels reductive and less mythic to show people trying to ‘get’ somewhere but not being able as it almost implies it is possible if one tries harder. So what are the alternatives.

Well, someone could say ‘this place can’t be reached be mortals.’ Which is…fine. It’s a bit bland on its own. If you have to have it, it’s probably nicer if it as an accompaniment to other factors. Showing distinct visuals help. An otherworldly aesthetic implies it isn’t attainable in a mortal plane. It’s utterly othered.

Also, an absence of mortals could be a thing. I could see a show in which a person died, their eyes closing. Then opens their eyes and is somewhere else entirely. Another reality. And as they explore this reality, they meet others (in this instance, elves). The person calls out for their lover but nobody can help (whether they want to but can’t or are simply silent is another choice I suppose). Depending how much the person accurately understands of the afterlife, maybe they expect their love to be here. Maybe they think their love’s actions ‘qualified’ them or maybe they simply don’t know the reality of this place. At any rate, their search highlights their longing and enhances the decision that comes next. They arrive at last at the inner sanctum and meet the gatekeeper of this place (Mandos) who explains that, no, their love is not and cannot be here. And so they have a choice to make. I think that feels powerful and that journey toward the goal makes the choice clear but also gives time for nuance to show a growth from simple longing for a love to return. Through interaction with others in this place, Luthien could realise why Beren NEEDS to come back. For him and for the world, as well as for herself.
 
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To be clear, there is a Hall of Tapestries inside the Halls of Mandos where Námo meets with Beren and Lúthien. That is a separate location from the Door of Morning, which is, naturally, a boundary to leave the world.

So here is a version with dark cliffs on either side of the singularity:

1682392249499.png

The implication here is that while this may be 'outdoor' space, it can only be entered through the Halls of Mandos, and thus only the spirits of the dead may be found here. Also, the weird sky (while simply an actual photo of mammatus clouds at sunset in Chicago last weekend) is to imply that we are at the edge of the world and there is nothing beyond...unless you pass through this hole in the world.
 
kanji_d said:
Here's an idea - not really able to draw this easily with my skills but the general idea is that there's not necessarily even something right there - rather there's something distant off in the horizon, something that maybe looks like the Sun (I know this is in the west so this would be evening and not morning... but idk). The stream of people going through go down into the water and don't rise up - but maybe that's a little creepy for the benevolent door Eru has provided to the unknown afterlife. Maybe you can see people going through the door on the other end?

View attachment 4871
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There could be a little flash of light when the souls pass through, which would create a pulsing, twinkling pattern, like a bright firefly. Also, while souls would have to wade through the water to reach it, perhaps they don't need to go fully underwater? If the water is only waist deep, then they can be walking out towards it....but I see the point. They're dead. It's not like they need to breathe. And going underwater and emerging again at the door is pretty heavily symbolic of death/rebirth. Alternatively, souls could pass over the water to reach the door.
 
Love the idea of a calm, widely spaced procession of people gently making their way across the stones toward a white glowing portal, like the setting sun on the horizon of the water
 
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