Dragon-Helm of Dor-Lomin

Octoburn

Active Member
I don't think it will be a problem to have the Dragon-helm cover the face of Turin when he is wearing it. It should be distinctive enough to stand out from any other helmets on the battlefield, so the viewers will all know it's Turin.

I think the helmet could be designed so the Dragon crest and the visor worked together.

Here's a helmet with a visor that looks like it slides up over the crest.
I really, really like the idea of this design. The way the visor flips up around the dragon could give a chance to add something to the dragon, as well. What, I don't know yet. Not wings yet, sadly...That might be a cool foreshadowing thing, though, if the visor resemble wings when flipped up around the dragon.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
You know, when I was thinking of visors I was also thinking about a visor that only covers the eyes but not the lower half of the face, like Cyclops’ visor in X-Men or a sallet helm.



 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
You know, when I was thinking of visors I was also thinking about a visor that only covers the eyes but not the lower half of the face, like Cyclops’ visor in X-Men or a sallet helm.



I am not really in favor of a partial visor because the point of the Dragon-helm is to protect its wearer from Dragons. I think fully covering the face would be necessary. If the visor, only partially covered the upper face, there should be a part of the helmet that extends below to protect the lower face.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
I am not really in favor of a partial visor because the point of the Dragon-helm is to protect its wearer from Dragons. I think fully covering the face would be necessary. If the visor, only partially covered the upper face, there should be a part of the helmet that extends below to protect the lower face.
Which is where my idea for the menpo could fit in.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Yeah, we have to design for two different factors here.

In a battle, it's important to protect your head. Therefore, wearing protective head gear is a thing most soldiers are rather interested in doing, across centuries and cultures.

...And on film, protective head gear tends to block out at least part of the actor's face, and is thus not desirable. Most directors find an excuse for actors to lift visors, remove helmets, and run around without the pesky headgear in the way. Even if it's a battle scene and really not a smart/recommended action.

There are exceptions. Sometimes, seeing the actor's face isn't important. There are roles where it's essential the mask stay on, and sometimes the mask in question is a helmet.

So, in V-for-Vendetta, it's not like you see Hugo Weaving's face. Instead, you see the smiling Guy Fawkes mask.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/KKvvOFIHs4k/maxresdefault.jpg

And in Monty Python's Holy Grail, the Black Knight is able to get through his entire skit with his helmet firmly in place. We don't need to see the face behind this helmet, apparently:




No one complains that the Witch-king keeps his helmet/mask in place throughout the Lord of the Rings films...there is no 'face' behind the mask anyway!





Another way to deal with this is to let a character wear a full face covering helmet....briefly. So, we do see it on screen, in a 'see, they aren't an idiot wading into this battle with a bare head!' but...that helmet isn't going to be there when you get to a scene with any emotion in it.

Frodo and Sam disguise themselves as orcs. They wear these costumes for, what, 3 minutes of screen time, if that? Just long enough to make use of the disguise. Then it's back to hobbit-clothes for them.


http://corecanvas.s3.amazonaws.com/theonering-0188db0e/gallery/original/frodo-sam-rotk.jpg


Peter Pevensie wisely lowers his visor before charging into battle (bareback on a unicorn, but that's another conversation). And yet, the entire helmet is gone by the time he faces the White Witch. A similar thing happens during the duel with Miraz in Prince Caspian.



https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f7/38/a4/f738a44fcd6f989342560a2216393340.jpg


(I haven't seen any versions of The Man in the Iron Mask, so other than knowing that there is indeed a metal mask over someone's face, I have no idea how the situation was handled on film; I presume you see his face at some point?)


If we give the dragon helm a movable faceplate, that allows actors to wear the helm on screen, and lower the visor for an instant in a scene where we want said actor to look menacing and invincible. But then to lift it to deliver lines, have facial expressions, etc. It's probably beneficial to make this a movable piece. And since we know there's a scene where Glaurung taunts Túrin to look at him....we'd want the option to have Túrin flip up the visor on the dragon helm if he is indeed wearing it at that time.

I'm now imagining a helm with a visor that lifts, but with a split down the middle, so it can slide back along the base of the crest. Not sure how practical that would be....
But then the quandary is, how do you have a piece that slides into and out of position over the face...AND also have a dragon crest? Because either the flipped-up visor obscures the dragon and makes it look silly, or else the dragon is in the way of whatever moving parts you want to have. It's a more difficult design to make look cool and not clunky, that's for sure!
Well, to answer your thoughts about The Man in the Iron Mask @MithLuin, the version I am most familiar with is the most recent theatrical version released in 1998 starring Leonardo DiCaprio as the psychotic Louis XIV and his kindhearted twin brother Philippe. How they handle it is that the mask is removed after the three Musketeers spirit Philippe from the Bastille prison and the mask is used intermittently from that point; the most extended use without the mask is when the Musketeers are disguising Philippe as Louis XIV, but after he is caught, Philippe wears the mask for most of the rest of the film until their plot is successful, since in this version he replaces Louis.
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
Here is my attempt at a design for the crest and visor of the Dragon-helm. Obviously, it would be much more decorated; I just wanted to see what you guys thought of the overall shape before I draw anything more detailed.
2510
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
Personally those designs remind me far too much of great bascinet helmets and fuchshelms, types which were intended for jousting... and were 15/16 century.
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
Personally those designs remind me far too much of great bascinet helmets and fuchshelms, types which were intended for jousting... and were 15/16 century.
Those were inspirations for the design. Should I aim for something older?
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
Masked helmets were used by diverse groups in Central-Asia, like the Kipchak, Cumans and others.
View attachment 2512View attachment 2513

So maybe something like the above?
The thing I dislike about the design of those helmets is that the visor would need a hinge in the top center because the conical shape would prevent it from sliding up and back. It would require something to keep if from flopping back down when lifted, and the crest would need to be high enough that the lifted visor does not block it. I’ll keep thinking of a way to make that design work.
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
The thing I dislike about the design of those helmets is that the visor would need a hinge in the top center because the conical shape would prevent it from sliding up and back. It would require something to keep if from flopping back down when lifted, and the crest would need to be high enough that the lifted visor does not block it. I’ll keep thinking of a way to make that design work.
What about having two halves of the visor rotate upward independently to accommodate the crest?
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
Well i see your point but such jousting helmet designs quite automatically diminish the dragon-crest, which is the helmets most outstandig feature... i am sure we want a large and imposing dragon-figure.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Well i see your point but such jousting helmet designs quite automatically diminish the dragon-crest, which is the helmets most outstandig feature... i am sure we want a large and imposing dragon-figure.
Try the 1982 version of Ivanhoe, which features characters wearing greathelms topped with animal crests; the one worn by Maurice de Bracy ( Stuart Wilson) is a red dragon.
 
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