Elrond isn't that young

Florian

New Member
During session 128, people had a lot of fun coming up with "meeting Elrond is like meeting someone who has witnessed some fairly recent historical event" comparisons. The problem with these is that all historical events in our world are fairly recent relative to the age of Elrond, so they make Elrond look quite a bit younger than he actually is. As a fun llittle exercise, I tried to come up with a parallel timeline illustrating the issue: The Table of Centuries.
 
Elrond lived through all the years of the Second Age, which were 3,441 years, and all the years of the Third Age, which were 3,021 years, before passing into the West.

Together, that makes 6,462 years. But Elrond lived longer than that, as he was born some time (we don't know how long - probably less than 50 years, considering the date of the death of his brother Elros, and the life expectancy of his father Earendil) before the start of the Second Age.

So, Elrond lived in Middle Earth for approximately 7,000 years. That would be like someone alive today being born in 5,000 bc.

In our known history, the world at the time of Elrond's birth would still be in the Stone Age (Neolithic) and the Bronze Age in the Middle East would still be 1,700 years in the future. Of course, in Middle Earth History, the world at the time of Elrond's birth was much more technologically advanced, and was in the Iron Age, or Steel Age, as Feanor and his sons had forged swords and other weapons before the kinslaying, which was long before the birth of Elrond. In our world, agriculture had begun in the Middle East by 9,500 bc, and pigs and sheep domesticated by 11,000 bc, so, in Elrond's more technologically advanced world, we can assume that he would not have been able to witness the domestication of sheep.

Throughout Elrond's lifetime, we can assume that most people (men and elves) lived on an agriculture based economy (Tolkien does not dwell on economy much). Whether those in Valinor relied on agriculture for their economy, however, I doubt. As I think that Valinor is in part an analogy of the Garden of Eden. I suspect that those who dwell there rely on the bounty of Yavanna's gardens, rather than on their own toil, for sustenance.
 
Age can be a funny thing. Gandalf is much older than Elrond, of course, having been around at the creation of the world as Olorin. But does he remember that? As Gandalf, he's only been in Middle-earth for approximately 2,000 years, so his personal memory of history doesn't stretch back to the Last Alliance - he knows about that as lore, not memory.

Whereas Elrond remembers both the Last Alliance and the fall of Thangorodrim, so has witnessed the end of the past 2 Ages of Middle-earth, and now the Third Age as well.

Making fun of a guy who 'only' remembers back to the fall of Rome is a bit head-scratchy!
 
Of course I wasn't counting years directly, but more aiming for a sense of the relative distance in the past. So Galadriel, by comparison, would be more akin to 'I was there when the first dog was domesticated' and Finwë would be 'I saw the first primates start to walk'.

Again the actual passage of time is not equivalent, but the significance of the milestones and the sense of ancientry attached may be.
 
For the Silmarillion Film Project, we set the K-T Extinction Event at the fall of the Lamps (so well predating elves).

Galadriel is, of course, old enough to have witnessed the first sunrise (and moonrise), though Finwë is too old to have done so, as he died before that happened. As I said...age can be....complicated!

Elrond certainly has older elves with him in Rivendell. He's not the 'oldest' around by any stretch. But...he's not young, nor the youngest. One way to look at it may be generations. Typically, human families don't have more than about 4 generations alive at once. You may have a chance to meet your great-grandparents when you are a young child. But...likely not get to know them in any meaningful way. When your grandparents pass away, your parents are left with the not-so-comfortable feeling of being the 'oldest' generation left alive. Hopefully by then, you are an adult, and the next generation is alive.

Galadriel is a grandmother. Elrond is a father. Elrond's children are adults. The next generation is on its way, with the birth of Arwen's children early in the 4th Age.

Are there generations before Galadriel? Sure. But are any of them still alive at the end of the Third Age in Middle-earth? Not that we know of, except for Círdan, who is definitely of the generation of Galadriel's grandparents, and likely an elf of Cuiviénen.

It is true that Frodo blurting out 'you were there?!' in surprise over the Last Alliance, which was 'only' 3000 years ago may have seemed silly to the elves there.
 
For the Silmarillion Film Project, we set the K-T Extinction Event at the fall of the Lamps (so well predating elves).

Galadriel is, of course, old enough to have witnessed the first sunrise (and moonrise), though Finwë is too old to have done so, as he died before that happened. As I said...age can be....complicated!

Elrond certainly has older elves with him in Rivendell. He's not the 'oldest' around by any stretch. But...he's not young, nor the youngest. One way to look at it may be generations. Typically, human families don't have more than about 4 generations alive at once. You may have a chance to meet your great-grandparents when you are a young child. But...likely not get to know them in any meaningful way. When your grandparents pass away, your parents are left with the not-so-comfortable feeling of being the 'oldest' generation left alive. Hopefully by then, you are an adult, and the next generation is alive.

Galadriel is a grandmother. Elrond is a father. Elrond's children are adults. The next generation is on its way, with the birth of Arwen's children early in the 4th Age.

Are there generations before Galadriel? Sure. But are any of them still alive at the end of the Third Age in Middle-earth? Not that we know of, except for Círdan, who is definitely of the generation of Galadriel's grandparents, and likely an elf of Cuiviénen.

It is true that Frodo blurting out 'you were there?!' in surprise over the Last Alliance, which was 'only' 3000 years ago may have seemed silly to the elves there.

Of course the difficulty in trying to provide a congruence between the timeline we understand of our world and that of Middle-Earth is manifold;
Our understanding of our world and its distant past has developed over the last century and Tolkien's conception of the history of Arda did not start from the same point, nor did it follow the same path.
 
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