"Elven Chess"

[ouzaru]

Way Back in Season 4 (roughly 14600 BCE - Before Covid Era)

This tidbit came up again in Season 6 because it's the centerpiece of a scene in Episode 4, so I'm putting it here to coincide with when it was floated to actually sit down and hammer out what the game might look like. This is a thread for the principles of Game Design, the aesthetics of the game we want to finally include, research related to historical games, as well as research into Tolkiens legendarium for cultural touchtones to support any design decisions that are to be made as we go through the innumerable tasks on the path to finishing a well-designed, (ideally) fun game to play.

OP to be updated with design decisions, prototypes and revised prototypes so Silmfilmers can try playtesting, and various sundries related to look-and-feel of an in-world example of the game.

 

[ouzaru]

Okay, sooooo ramblings off the top of my head.

Before I get into anything else, I wanted to talk about games on screen.

If you've seen Guy Ritchie's Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows, you probably remember the chess match at the climax of the film. The video linked above is not only a break down of the actual moves in the film and the inspiration that inspired them, but also covers how the film used this (extremly nerd) text to underscore the subtext of the scene and how the whole thing works together to deliver a very evocative, very enjoyable, and (bottom line) effective piece of cinema. My ultimate goal is to be able to design a game that reflects in similar fashion some aspect of the scene in which it appears. It doesn't have to be as momentous or or central to the climax, none of the scenes we have written thus far including the game occur at the climax of the film, but it's always delightful when there's meaning for the audience to dig into, and even moreso when there's depth to that meaning.

So with that in mind, general thoughts and questions about "elven chess".

• Thingol's copy should probably be made of stone. Perhaps not entirely, and what manner of stone is debatable, but it seems appropriate for Menegroth. So what manner of stone, and what accents could be used that aren't of stone? Is there a compelling reason to avoid stone?
• The size of the board: how close do we want Thingol and Mablung to be to one another in the scene? Are they seated across from one another? Within arms reach? Could the scene have them strolling around an oversized board shuffling pieces about with poles? There are a lot of ways that Thingol, Mablung, and the nature of their communication in the scene might inform the specific copy of the game they are playing, irrespective of how the actual game shakes out that we ought to consider.
• What's the look and feel we're going for? What are the emotions we're looking to evoke besides "that's cool" in the audience?

All right, I'm gonna be late for a lunch date if I don't end it there for now, but I'm hoping to see some activity in here over the next week!

 

[MithLuin]

Here is the chess scene from the end of the first X-Men film. Naturally, this is an example of tension between enemies playing out over a chess game. There are quotes in the movies about pawns and opening moves. It's not nearly as serious or pivotal as the Sherlock/Moriarty game, of course, so becomes more like set dressing and less like a part of the plot.

I tried to find the clip of the very large outdoor game in Mirror Mirror where they moved the chess pieces around, but I could not. I remember it being terribly boring and silly looking (presumably...on purpose?) To show how terrible the kingdom was doing, maybe? So, definitely not like that!

Here's the discussion of the 'Wizard's Chess' set in the first Harry Potter film; naturally, the art department wasn't exactly led by chess players.

I think we want this game to be warm and friendly, somewhat intimate and relaxed, not tense. Thingol is the king, and his subjects do defer to him, but in this moment, they are enjoying a game together, and Mablung feels as though he can speak his mind to his king. I am not saying the game can't be competitive, but it's not a tense nail-biter. There's some underlying politics, perhaps, but nothing like intrigue. In other words, I don't want to lean too hard into the 'chessmaster' personality where one character is clearly plotting and scheming. It's...not like that. It's more like family game night or a weekly bridge club or something.


My first thought was that the game should be made of wood; the Sindar of Season 3 would be more likely to have wooden items, I think. But of course Thingol could have a stone set after moving into Menegroth.

 

[Odola]

My first thought was that the game should be made of wood; the Sindar of Season 3 would be more likely to have wooden items, I think. But of course Thingol could have a stone set after moving into Menegroth.

Wood board and natural stone pieces (like pebbles)? I would still like some luck element in it to represent Fate - so some divining throwing sticks or runestones as a dice device would be nice -to be thrown before a move on the board - could look quite complicated to us but seems obvious to the players.

 

[Vibes]

There is a game i wanted to suggest, which has a strategy element of sorts but also reliant on luck. It's called Chaupar or Pachisi. It is a historical game but very similar to Ludo of sorts. It's not chess, that's for certain, but it was a game played mostly by kings. You can check that one out.

Pachisi/Chaupar https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cha...ahabharata between Yudhishthira and Duryodhan.

 

[MithLuin]

Some musings on Sindarin Chess (ChesSind?):

Name could be something like "Game of Kings" translated into Sindarin.

12x12 board? I recall a misconception being spread through the conlanging community that "Elvish uses base 12" but I don't believe this is corroborated in Tolkien's works as far as I've read, but it serves to differentiate it. I think an odd numbered board side is decidedly un-Elvish.

Depending on history, ChesSind is one of the following:
If it originated near the Awakening: Not a war game. Probably an area defense game? Map looks something like Cuivienen (terrain features do occur in actual games in the chess family such as Xiangqi).
Along the journey to Valinor: Could conceivably be a war game. Maybe based on the War of the Powers? I expect that theme would have fallen out of favor by the time of the Rising of the Sun.
After the sleep of Elwe: Could be a war game or a game of courtly politics?
During the first wars with Morgoth: Probably a war game.
After the arrival of the Noldor: Probably a war game, but almost certainly not about the war with Morgoth.

I am fine with the 12x12 board suggestion. I don't think that maps with any existing variation of Tafl, though, does it?

Go is more territory-based than warfare-based, so that could perhaps be an inspiration as well. (I mean, you're capturing enemy groups by surrounding them - it's not not warfare-based...) It is typically played on a square board, but with odd-numbered board sides.

We could also consider borrowing an element from Reversi/Othello, where you flip over pieces as you play (with the top/bottom being different colors).

I do like the idea of considering what the 'early' game board/pieces would look like, in contrast to what Thingol's set in Menegroth would look like. So, if you *could* play the game with pebbles on a board scratched out in the dirt, that would be cool...but of course Thingol's set has elaborately carved pawns and is made of stone or wood, with a permanent, dedicated table for the game.

"Game of Kings" will be difficult to translate into Sindarin; the word for 'kings' is clear (aran --> erain), but there isn't a word for 'game' (that I am aware of).
So, perhaps more the idea that this is a game you play at the king's table? The Gnomish Lexicon gives "sard" as the word for table, though of course that is not Sindarin. We could also get very poetic about this to make words work. For instance, the word for 'door' is related to the word for 'crossing rivers'. So, pathu "level space, sward" refers to an outdoor area, but could be borrowed for the flat playing surface for this game, perhaps. So, we might need a playful way of thinking about the word 'game' using words we do know in Sindarin... galu "good fortune" or talu "flat" might be helpful

 

[Odola]

I am fine with the 12x12 board suggestion. I don't think that maps with any existing variation of Tafl, though, does it?

Go is more territory-based than warfare-based, so that could perhaps be an inspiration as well. (I mean, you're capturing enemy groups by surrounding them - it's not not warfare-based...) It is typically played on a square board, but with odd-numbered board sides.

I would like a Go style game too (ancient Chinese nobles playing it in Chinese costumes dramas look always very elegant), but still I do like the magical elements of Chaupar where one tries to curse/influence to other's good luck before thowing the dice device. Would be interesting to see elves trying to outdo each other in magically influencing those outcomes too.

 

[kanji_d]

As it stands I've got a couple ideas that I can draw later — basically an asymmetric game with pieces and boards like tafl but with objectives more akin to area control games (not go specifically but that's a possibility).

 

[kanji_d]

Alright so the gist is that there is an "island" in the middle which one player starts on, surrounded by a lake with four bridges over it, one square wide in each of the cardinal directions. The other player begins on the periphery. The island player has only the same medium-strength pieces, while the outside player has a few varieties of pieces. The outside player can only cross at the bridges, while the island player can cross the lake anywhere. The goal of the outside player is to occupy the island and the goal of the island player is to eliminate the enemy. Loosely based on the raids of Cuivienen. It needs some work to balance it, but could be a baseline.

 

[MithLuin]

If it is based on Cuivienen, I suggest the crossings be ferry boats, not bridges (though I do love the visual of bridges rising up from the board).

Alternatively, the island in the center could be called Almaren.

 

[kanji_d]

I had considered the possibility of having ferry boats as well that only the island player could use, but I felt that was too complex, but certainly we can repurpose the idea for the usual crossings.

 

[MithLuin]

This is giving me flashbacks to middle school. I had to create a game for history class. It was about the Age of Exploration, so I had a map with squares and little wooden ships with nails stuck in them. You had to collect some sort of resources on cards that you stuck on the nails. My dad helped me carve the ships. The game didn't work very well, because the map was real, not stylized. So it took too many turns to get anywhere. Well, and also it was designed by a 10-yr-old. But I based it vaguely on Tradewinds, so I wasn't starting from scratch.

Regardless, fixed bridges on the board sound like the way to go here. They could be stylized as ferry boats, but we don't need boats as moveable pieces.

 

[ouzaru]

Wood board and natural stone pieces (like pebbles)? I would still like some luck element in it to represent Fate - so some divining throwing sticks or runestones as a dice device would be nice -to be thrown before a move on the board - could look quite complicated to us but seems obvious to the players.

That's an interesting idea but I'm not entirely certain a chance element is really appropriate for representing the elvish understanding of "fate" in Middle Earth. Do you want to expand on this idea little bit and explain your reasoning, how you're getting at the theme of Fate and what you want the audience to be getting from it?

 

[Odola]

That's an interesting idea but I'm not entirely certain a chance element is really appropriate for representing the elvish understanding of "fate" in Middle Earth. Do you want to expand on this idea little bit and explain your reasoning, how you're getting at the theme of Fate and what you want the audience to be getting from it?

The elvish general perspective is a fatalistic one, the world is doomed to decline and the more they try to prevent this the more they fasten the process. Choices - if ever a thing - are more for the worse than better. E.g. Finrod does not expect his fullfilling his oath to Barahir to bring any actual good- he is expecting to fail - to die with his companion. Thingol drams about the Second Commers supplanting the elves. The future brings only disaster for elves. The best has been already, they are all about slowing down losing it.

This is not a position to have goals for the future to strategically plan for and trying to reach them, this is more an attitude about how to "manage failure/decline" to make it more bearable.

Dices (or thowing sticks, or throwing bones - astragali) in old games like "Royal game of UR" or "Senet" or "Chaupar" do represent the whims of fate - even if all those are all human games, they come from cultures who (have) believe(d) in fate. Thus those game seem to me a better a approximation of an elvish persepctive than pure stategy games with a clear objectives that are to be reached and gained in future.

From an elvish perspective a game when one starts out with maximum points and has to lose less than the opponent seems most fitting to me, actually. (It would also stress Thingols perspective of losing Luthien instead of taking delight in her new future). And trying to charm the other dice throw seems also like an elvish play-combat of wills.

 

[kanji_d]

Alright, here's a drawing of my idea (expanded to a 15x15 board but that may end up being unnecessary now that I look at it). Letters represent pieces. The rules are as follows:

The Island player has 17 pieces (E for Elf). They move two orthogonal spaces on their turn (these can sum to one diagonal move).

The outside player has 20 pieces of differing type: four Commanders (C), eight cavalry (V), and eight infantry (I). The commanders move like a chess queen, but a maximum of five spaces. The cavalry move like the Elves. The Infantry move one orthogonal space.

The Island player wins if they capture (capturing occurs as in chess) all pieces of the opponent, except three of their commanders (which may be captured but are not necessary). The Outside player wins if they bring all of their commanders to the center nine squares (but may substitute 2 cavalry for each commander).

The rules of the lake are as follows: the Elves may cross the lake at will. The Outside player's pieces must cross at the boat spaces, and must stop on the space before continuing.

Now, I've not playtested this at all to see if it is balanced, so feel free to critique it or offer alternative rules or setups.

 

[MithLuin]

Very cool, Dillon! We shall have to give it a try....



From the Gnomish lexicon (ie, not Sindarin...): tunc n. “chance; occurrence; arrival; hit at shooting; luck”

I think that dice would be considered 'luck' by the audience, not a commentary on 'fate'. That is how we consider games - are they based on luck or skill/strategy or some combination of the two? Basically, that would introduce an element of probability into the calculations needed for strategy.

Obviously, a dice game can be used to discuss fate on film. I'm not sure we're going to necessarily have a reason to use this elvish game for any conversations about fate, though.

Note that the fate-heavy dialogue was deleted from the final version of this scene that made it into the film.

 

[ouzaru]

The elvish general perspective is a fatalistic one, the world is doomed to decline and the more they try to prevent this the more they fasten the process. Choices - if ever a thing - are more for the worse than better. E.g. Finrod does not expect his fullfilling his oath to Barahir to bring any actual good- he is expecting to fail - to die with his companion. Thingol drams about the Second Commers supplanting the elves. The future brings only disaster for elves. The best has been already, they are all about slowing down losing it.

This is not a position to have goals for the future to strategically plan for and trying to reach them, this is more an attitude about how to "manage failure/decline" to make it more bearable.

Dices (or thowing sticks, or throwing bones - astragali) in old games like "Royal game of UR" or "Senet" or "Chaupar" do represent the whims of fate - even if all those are all human games, they come from cultures who (have) believe(d) in fate. Thus those game seem to me a better a approximation of an elvish persepctive than pure stategy games with a clear objectives that are to be reached and gained in future.

From an elvish perspective a game when one starts out with maximum points and has to lose less than the opponent seems most fitting to me, actually. (It would also stress Thingols perspective of losing Luthien instead of taking delight in her new future). And trying to charm the other dice throw seems also like an elvish play-combat of wills.

I think you're pulling from a lot of interesting sources, but I don't know if I necessarily agree up and down with all of these elements being in Tolkien's legendarium in quite the absolutist ways your suggesting (not the least reason being that they were in flux throughout his life).

I do agree that starting with a point total and minimizing the loss feels somewhat appropriate for Middle Earth, although the immediate parallels are almost entirely very negative examples, and I'm not entirely certain that I believe the elves to be capable of that level of self-awareness to make it an element of their games. On the other hand, the fact that it's pretty uncommon in human games does make it appealing in a somewhat going-against expectation sense.

I don't have any final thoughts on any of these points, I'm kinda thinking out loud. Keep discussing!

 

[ouzaru]

Alright, here's a drawing of my idea (expanded to a 15x15 board but that may end up being unnecessary now that I look at it). Letters represent pieces. The rules are as follows:

The Island player has 17 pieces (E for Elf). They move two orthogonal spaces on their turn (these can sum to one diagonal move).

The outside player has 20 pieces of differing type: four Commanders (C), eight cavalry (V), and eight infantry (I). The commanders move like a chess queen, but a maximum of five spaces. The cavalry move like the Elves. The Infantry move one orthogonal space.

The Island player wins if they capture (capturing occurs as in chess) all pieces of the opponent, except three of their commanders (which may be captured but are not necessary). The Outside player wins if they bring all of their commanders to the center nine squares (but may substitute 2 cavalry for each commander).

The rules of the lake are as follows: the Elves may cross the lake at will. The Outside player's pieces must cross at the boat spaces, and must stop on the space before continuing.

Now, I've not playtested this at all to see if it is balanced, so feel free to critique it or offer alternative rules or setups.

View attachment 4304

This looks kind of large are first blush, but kind of neat. I think we're getting waaaaay ahead of ourselves drawing up prototypes at this juncture, though. We haven't come to decision on what kind of mechanics we're using, if we want a playable game we probably don't want to start with a board and game pieces.

 

[Odola]

I think you're pulling from a lot of interesting sources, but I don't know if I necessarily agree up and down with all of these elements being in Tolkien's legendarium in quite the absolutist ways your suggesting (not the least reason being that they were in flux throughout his life).

I do agree that starting with a point total and minimizing the loss feels somewhat appropriate for Middle Earth, although the immediate parallels are almost entirely very negative examples, and I'm not entirely certain that I believe the elves to be capable of that level of self-awareness to make it an element of their games. On the other hand, the fact that it's pretty uncommon in human games does make it appealing in a somewhat going-against expectation sense.

I don't have any final thoughts on any of these points, I'm kinda thinking out loud. Keep discussing!

I do not think self-awareness is a strong side of elves - beyond Finrod - and his sister - when she is old and exprieenced. Elves live long, and see much, as such they need less inborn "automatisms" than what short-lived humans need to have.

But you need not to be self-aware of your elvishness to make an game in accoring to the elvish outlook on life, the question is why would you do a game with a inbuild human outlook on life if you are an elf? That latter point imho makes no sense.

The issue is, do we present elves just as humans who just happen to do magic, love nature and not die of old age?
But that makes Luthien's choice kind of pointless in our story - a caprice without any reason.

The point is that humans do have a hope that elves have not and the makes the humans hope "into future" regardless how hopeless the current situation is. But this changes the whole outlook, one lives and plans for the future - centers the focus of one's life forward. Elves simply have no reason to do this. Also elves are not forced to prioritize, assign and divide limited resources, maximise outcomes and be efficent - and those some basic points of stategy.

At its basis stategy is a way to act around limitations - but fighting limitiations is a basic human experience - not an elvish one. Elves do to fight to win the future, they fight to preserve the past. Elves dread the future (see e.g.: Thingol's nightmares about the coming of humans)- it means decline and loss for them. So why would they play stategy?
And especialy in Thingol's Doriath with his own ultra-isolationistic, backward-looking, risk-abhorring, extremely status-quo preserving and passive attitudes?

The only game of this sort Thingol imho would be interested would be something with the name like "Protect the forest".

I could also imagine some musical games, like where you draw some notes and must complete a small musical piece according to some fixed rules competing with your opponent - a little like the poetry duels of the Chinese costume dramas. But strategy like chess feel to me just completely out of character - for elves general - and for Doriath in particular.

I think the only area where the Doriathim use stategy is hunting. And they would not play that in a board game but simply go hunting when they feel like it.

 

[MithLuin]

Keep in mind that Thingol has fought in battles. Military planning and strategy is not wholly foreign to him nor to Mablung (who is his consistent opponent in these scenes).

We have also shown the Noldor implementing strategy and strategic thinking throughout. It is by no means foreign to them, nor should it be. The Siege is a plan with a concrete goal, even if that goal does show the elven viewpoint.


When I was a child, my siblings and I occasionally played something called 'the lockout game.' The set up was simple. One child was inside the house. The other children were outside the house. The goal of the people outside was to try to get inside; the goal of the person inside was to prevent anyone from getting in. Naturally, the first thing the person inside did was run around the house and lock all of the doors. But this was tricky, because one of the basement doors had a latch on the outside, so not easy to lock from the inside. So, the person inside would have to barricade the trapdoor from that basement into the sunroom. Then, there were a lot of ground-floor level windows. So, you would have to run around and close all the windows and latch them. This house didn't have AC, so in the summer, most of the windows were open with screens. With more people outside than inside, the 'defender' had a busy job to stay ahead of the infiltrators. I don't remember anyone ever fetching a ladder and using that to reach a roof or 2nd story window, but there were plenty of ladders available on the property.

I bring this up, because the very nature of this game betrays the starting conditions. In many houses, you could not play this 'game' - you lock the front and back door, any windows on the ground floor are already closed and latched, and the person inside can sit and watch TV while the person outside has no way in. There is no game. The house I grew up in was an old Victorian split-level farmhouse, with four basements and two attics, and windows designed for cross-ventilation. So, it was an active challenge to prevent someone from getting in, and usually took 20-30 minutes for the game to play out with people either getting in, or effectively being completely locked out.

I am fine with designing a game that 'betrays' something about the mindset of elves or the condition of Doriath. I don't think that it has to be free from strategy, but doing something that most games don't do (but would make sense to an elf) is fine.