Elves Reaction To Death Question

John Lambert

New Member
I am currently listening to the podcast discussing Season 3-5.

The hosts are discussing about how death to the elves will be viewed differently compared to humans.

Unlike humans, they know where their spirit goes and they will see the departed again. Humans it is still a huge mystery.

So how to downplay death/murder from an elf perspective compared to human while still being a "big deal"?

I think one possible answer comes from the libertarian perspective. (Not trying to convert, but hear me out. LOL)

For most libertarians, our philosophy evolves around one principle: the non-aggression principle. No one is morally justified using force against another. The only moral acceptable use of force is in self-defense.

From our perspective, one could argue that murder is a huge violation because it is the ultimate, final denial of another of their liberty. If I murder you, I am denying your right of having free will. Key!

I would assume some of this concept could still be applied to Elves. One Elf murders another, the deceased's spirit will still exist, but they would no longer in control of their destiny. Thus, the sin.

Just thought I would throw this concept out. Going back to finish the podcast! :)

John
 
Death for Elves is still painful, traumatic, and fundamentally an unnatural injury arising because of the Marring -- much like torture and rape, which aren't necessarily fatal. Or imagine if somebody abducted your loved ones to another continent and you never see or hear from them again -- of course you'd miss them, right? Elves aren't given any guarantee of reincarnation nor reunion with family and friends, only the hope that it may happen... someday.* There's an idea that dead Elves are healed before being reincarnated... but the harm caused by death cannot be wholly undone. And some Elves are so traumatized by especially awful deaths that they decide never to return to life.


* Eru did order Manwe to restore any dead Elf who is both willing to live and repentant/redeemed of any evil deeds they did... but the Elves don't necessarily know that. And it always takes many years, or decades, or centuries. And redemption may require some kind of really unpleasant purgatory. From the way the Doom of Mandos is worded, the Exiles in particular have reason to worry that they've lost all hopes for reincarnation... and I'm guessing most** did, until the War of Wrath. And Exiles fenced out of Valinor, or Moriquendi who prefer Middle-earth, can't reunite with their reincarnated loved ones ...

** With maybe 11 or 12 exceptions: Glorfindel, Finrod, Finrod's companions
 
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Rape and torture would still be morally wrong and a violation. Yes, the trauma can have effects. However after those events, you still will have your free will unlike being murdered. Now one could argue that sometimes there could be fates worse then death, but again, the question would be: who determines this? Thus, free will again.

In that episode, I don't think anyone was suggesting death wasn't painful for Elves. The question was how the Elves would look upon death differently compared to Humans who have no idea of their fate once death occurs. However, the one commonality that both would share is the loss of free will upon death.
 
I know it's a subjective question whether rape or torture are fates worse than death or not as bad...

I think I'm suggesting that it would be a mistake to "downplay" Elves' reaction to death at all, compared to our own reactions. They don't have that existential terror that we all probably suffer, fundamentally not knowing if our souls will even exist after death. But in every other way, death for them is still horrible, even though not as horrible as for us.

Beyond not downplaying it... I have no idea. I suspect that how Elves think isn't really a genuinely answerable question for us Mortals... My only suggestion is to check out a copy of Morgoth's Ring and read the Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth. It's literally a deep theological and philosophical conversation about death between an Elf and a Mortal.
 
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