Episode 1-1

I'm still figuring out what my outline would be for each episode (I've been running a little behind on listening to the podcasts and just finished Episode 0-4), however, I had an idea for how the first episode could start and wanted to toss it out there (this is based on the assumption that we are starting with a young Aragorn frame narrative.) I think the Ainulendule is too abstract of a starting point, so what if we started with the sprouting of the Trees? I'm not suggesting that the entire story be told, but almost like we're walking into the middle of a story just before the Trees start to grow. We see the growing of the Trees and then a voice-over transition to Elrond talking to a young Estel. Just my thoughts.
 
JBramson said:
Good point about #6. Any thoughts on how to fix it? As for #11/#13, the idea was just to foreshadow the corruption of the elves, either through torture/manipulation of animals or by somehow showing Melkor's ideas for creating orcs. He knew the Eldar were coming, and perhaps knew they were coming soon, so it's not unreasonable that he was preparing evil devices for their arrival.
Click to expand...
 
Nicholas Palazzo said:
"Now Melkor began the delving and building of a vast fortress, deep under the Earth, beneath dark mountains where the beams of Illuin were cold and dim. That stronghold was named Utumno. And though the Valar knew naught of it as yet, nonetheless the evil of Melkor and the blight of his hatred flowed out thence ... Then the Valar knew indeed that Melkor was at work again and they sought out his hiding place."

I might suggest that while preparations go on for the wedding, Orome is out trying to find where Melkor is setting up shop. I can see him and Manwe discussing the situation, and trying not to let Tulkas know that Melkor is reasserting himself, because he is otherwise occupied. Just a thought. Put the tension in a B plot.

Having intrigue amongst the Maiar would also give us something to worry about to, since Melkor had spies among them. Perhaps some kind of conflict between Olorin/Curunir and Mairon.
Click to expand...
 
Although this conversation is over my head, I would like to make a suggestion. In the dark days of Melkor's power, would it be possible to weave in, a bit of light. Maybe a story of a female maiar marrying an elf (Sindarin), and bearing a golden-haired daughter, who catches the eye of another maiar. These two would like happy, quiet lives secluded from Melkor's interest and protected from his servants' power. What do you think? Can it be woven in?
 
Richard Palazzo said:
Although this conversation is over my head, I would like to make a suggestion. In the dark days of Melkor's power, would it be possible to weave in, a bit of light. Maybe a story of a female maiar marrying an elf (Sindarin), and bearing a golden-haired daughter, who catches the eye of another maiar. These two would like happy, quiet lives secluded from Melkor's interest and protected from his servants' power. What do you think? Can it be woven in?
Click to expand...
With some adjustments, that will be the main story for season eight, or something like that.
 
That is something to look at. While in the pre-Children of Illuvetar phase, I would say that most of the "bits of light" would come from the wonder of sub-creation on the parts of the Valar. If you can find it, the opening scenes of "The Toymaker's Dream" would give an idea as to what that would look like.
 
A thought occurred to me when discussing the two former Valar from Lost Tales that Tolkien got rid of. (two "M" names I don't remember). It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to associate these two with Melkor from the beginning still keeping them "battle maiar". But when they finally go fully to the "dark side" they could be the original or the leaders of the Balrogs. Melkor's presumed association with fire would help this make sense.
 
Richard Palazzo said:
Although this conversation is over my head, I would like to make a suggestion. In the dark days of Melkor's power, would it be possible to weave in, a bit of light. Maybe a story of a female maiar marrying an elf (Sindarin), and bearing a golden-haired daughter, who catches the eye of another maiar. These two would like happy, quiet lives secluded from Melkor's interest and protected from his servants' power. What do you think? Can it be woven in?
Click to expand...
I like the idea of showing "a bit of light" as you say. My only comment might be is that your idea has very little connection to the actual Silm. story itself. The characters would have to be developed from scratch and given some context within the story. Too much screen time? Maybe.
 
I also agree with the idea of showing 'bit of light', and think that we will indeed see that in the joy of subcreation expressed by the Ainur in Arda, the victory of Tulkas over Melkor, and his wedding a few episodes later. The wonder of the creation of the dwarves, the Ents, and ... were the eagles fashioned during this time?
 
Last edited:
I believe the Great Eagles were created (?) by Manwë later, when the Noldor were exiled. But yeah, there are some great subcreation wonders to find joy in. Don't forget the lamps, and of course, the stars.
 
it seems like the bigest challenge of this season is to humanize these super powerful god like characters. When they arrive do they know each other, are they fully formed with pre existing relationships or are they reborn on arda like giant children? Does there need to be conflict and banter, will you show those that are married meeting and then falling in love?
Do we get to watch them create Mountians and seas? What will it look like before melcor messes everything up?

If you are going to build a full 13 hour season around them then you need character arcs for all of them. Oddly enough I keep thinking back to the cartoon thunder cats which starts out with a not dissimilar pretense of super hero like characters landing on an uninhabited planet and coming into conflict with an ultra powerful evil character "mumra".
 
I am not certain that it is a challenge so much as something to avoid the temptation to do. They are not, in fact, human, but as you say, god-like creatures.

Yes, they would know each other, and with the exception of Tulkas and Nessa, seem to have relationships prior to their arrival.

It would make sense to watch them creating the mountains, the seas, everything that is involved in creating the world.
 
Right but you could cover all that in an hour, if you are planing on spending almost an entire season of television on them as your protagonists you need to treat them like characters.

Ideally I agree that they should be treated with deference and distance, but then you would need to present them in short iconic clips instead of long narratives. You would need the frame story to be truly dominat in the first season in order to make that work.
 
"-What characters of the received Silmarillion are ripe for further development?"

My biggest concern is that Melkor himself is going to suffer from character underdevelopment. There's a temptation to depict him as utterly evil from the get go, but I like to remember what Elrond said, "For nothing is evil in the beginning. Even Sauron was not so." And by extension, even Morgoth was not so, right? He needs to start out as what he initially was, the mightiest Ainu, not evil, certainly arrogant, but desiring to create things on his own (which is no more evil than Aule's desire to create the dwarves), who only first felt anger and resentment after being called out and shamed by Eru. So what is Melkor's character arc? Does he go from awesome, yet flawed, to the very Epitome of Evil within the first episode, or can we find a way to stretch out his character development for at least one season?

As the old trope goes, everyone is the hero of their own story. Melkor must feel justified in his actions, and his motives need to make sense to the audience. I think that much of his early opposition to the Valar (those bunch of goody-two-shoes conformists!) can even be sympathized with up to a point, and I'd like to see him as essentially being a tragic protagonist at first, like Feanor will be later, and perhaps even the central character of Season One (or at least a co-protagonist with his coeval brother Manwe, to make them contrasts for one another).

Now, if the first season is going as far as the awakening of the Elves, more or less, then I think the first season must conclude as Melkor's evil reaches perhaps its most irredeemable point, with the capture of elves and their perversion into orcs. But Melkor's increasing degrees of evil need to progress naturally, or he's not a believable character.
 
Matt Duke said:
"-What characters of the received Silmarillion are ripe for further development?"

My biggest concern is that Melkor himself is going to suffer from character underdevelopment. There's a temptation to depict him as utterly evil from the get go, but I like to remember what Elrond said, "For nothing is evil in the beginning. Even Sauron was not so." And by extension, even Morgoth was not so, right? He needs to start out as what he initially was, the mightiest Ainu, not evil, certainly arrogant, but desiring to create things on his own (which is no more evil than Aule's desire to create the dwarves), who only first felt anger and resentment after being called out and shamed by Eru. So what is Melkor's character arc? Does he go from awesome, yet flawed, to the very Epitome of Evil within the first episode, or can we find a way to stretch out his character development for at least one season?
Click to expand...

I agree that this is a problem. Maybe you're right about how far season one should reach. I've got another thought. If we look at the Quenta up to the point where the elves wake up, Melkor is at war with the other Valar from the start and an evil, destructive force throughout. In the Ainulindalë, the picture is more nuanced, and we get the keys to begin to understand his fall. So, we need to use the Ainulindalë to make this clear. The frame narrative is one way, but I think we should have the Valar themselves refer to Ainulindalë and the glory of Melkor and wonder about him. One question that concern the Valar is of course the Firstborn, and another should be What hope is there for Melkor, what can we do to save him? At least Manwë could have hope. Then these two questions are both answered when Melkor captures the elves and ruin them.
 
In Melkor I think we should have an arc from the impossible ambition of wanting to possess the Flame Imperishable, through failure of accomplishing that, to envy towards Manwë and the other Valar (the building of the Lamps!) and then wanting revenge and the desire to destroy the subcreations of the Valar (and the children of Iluvatar).
 
Last edited:
Chris Stevens said:
I like the idea of showing "a bit of light" as you say. My only comment might be is that your idea has very little connection to the actual Silm. story itself. The characters would have to be developed from scratch and given some context within the story. Too much screen
Click to expand...
I am thinking of the LOTR universe as a continuum here, referring to Tom Bombadil and Goldberry. Melkor's power is full of self-glorification. Iluvatar could make him cease to exist in a moment, but chooses instead to allow him to live. Tom Bombadil knows this, and that's why he is able to live a quiet life under Iluvatar's care. It is good, and gives hope to us, to see him doing so even while Melkor's rages.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top