Tony Meade
Active Member
SESSION 127
What it means under its fair cloak:
What it means under its fair cloak:
- Dáin does well under these circumstances and despite all of the obvious threats. He might be simply stalling the messenger if he hadn’t expressed that he knows that the messenger is lying.
- He refuses to play along with the messenger while saying nothing openly hostile or insulting, while the messenger refuses to be put off indefinitely and demands a quick answer.
- Is Sauron able to attack the Dwarves right away if they refuse? Probably not, only because he is not currently attacking them, but the preparations are close to being completed.
- It’s unclear how much intelligence the Dwarves would have on Sauron’s actual capabilities. They would probably know that there is no imminent threat, but Dáin is not only thinking of today.
- Do they know that Sauron a Maia? It doesn’t seem clear that almost anyone in Middle-earth knows anything about the Ainur at all, much less their categories, unlike readers do.
- Though an open threat has not yet been issued, the messenger makes it clear that it will not stay that way. He ignores Dáin’s assertion of his kingship as he thinks it to be temporary.
- The messenger removes the future from the conversation and leaves this only in an uncertain present. He seems to be saying that the future is in Sauron’s hands alone.
- The Dwarves base their disbelief on Sauron’s message mostly on historical precedent. Glóin implies that there were several betrayals before, and not just the giving of the Seven Rings.
- Other betrayals would include the destruction of Eregion right next to Khazad-dûm, as well as possibly the death of Thror, but this is also a general statement of Sauron’s character.
- He may also be speaking to the councilors in general of their shared history with Sauron.
- Note: This may also be an untold tale, which Tolkien often uses to create the illusion of depth.
- Sauron would prefer the Dwarves help him, but he would settle for their inaction and submission. He might bait them into even revealing something about the Ring inadvertently.
- Sauron has previously declared himself ruler of all of Middle-earth, so in a way, this is a reassertion of that old authority by using the title “Lord Sauron the Great”.
- By making the hearing public, Sauron might also hope to foment division among the Dwarves and between Erebor and Dale, so that if Dáin refuses, that may trigger descent.
- It’s not clear that many outside of the White Council and perhaps some of the lords in Wilderland know that Sauron had been The Necromancer while in Mirkwood.
- Most people assume that they were separate, and that Sauron had just returned to Mordor.
- Many among the Wise thought that The Necromancer was one of the Wizards or of the Nazgûl.
- Note: At the time of the writing of The Hobbit, this was true, in that The Necromancer was a dark Wizard. For most of the draft history of The Lord of the Rings, the Witch-king was called the Wizard-king and was a rogue member of the order of the Wizards, picking up on that earlier concept. He had been a Numenorean magician, picking up on the same ideas a C.S. Lewis used in making Merlin from “Numinor”.
- Far from giving up Bilbo in order to save themselves, their first priority for both Dáin and Glóin is to send the message to Bilbo that he is in danger, which speaks well of them.
- They also understand that anything Sauron wants is not in anyone’s interest for him to get it.
- Note: Unlike what many readers take for granted, it is not common knowledge that the One Ring even exists, much less that it would be the ring that Sauron seeks. It might have been known to the lords of the Dwarves back in the Second Age, but that ended over 3,000 years ago. They may still remember their own Ring of Power, but not anything if at all about the One Ring. The Elvish lore contained in the Ring poem might not have been shared widely.
- While Elrond’s advice on the geopolitical situation is the largest matter, Glóin lists it last, while naming the desire to know more about the ring Sauron wants and the danger to Bilbo first.
- The Dwarves wouldn’t know much about the kingdoms of Men in the South now, but the return of Mordor might bring up memories of the Last Alliance, but they seek out Elrond first.
- They also travel in the West regularly, so this way would be more convenient to their travels.
- The Dwarves may consult with the Elvenking in Mirkwood, though his Elves are less wise, and he is less revered. They have negative history with those Elves and positive history with Elrond.