Episode 128 Summary

[Tony Meade]

SESSION 128

Comment on the departures of Bilbo and Frodo from Bag End:

• There are clear parallels between the descriptions of Bilbo’s departure after the Long-expected Party, and Frodo’s departure in “Three’s Company”.
• Both depart by leaping over the low part of the hedge and passing like a rustle in the grasses.
• There’s a sense that the low part in the hedge is a common shortcut used by the folks nearby.
• Even while Frodo emphasizes the way in which his and Bilbo’s quests are nearly opposites of each other, he still has the impulse to follow Bilbo’s example and relive his adventures.
• The repetition of the “Road Goes Ever On” poem also emphasizes these parallels, in spite of the difference in tone, and Frodo even feels like he was making the poem up himself.
• One reason to emphasize the differences is that they are far outnumbered by the similarities.
• They are even the same age, and Frodo seems to anticipate an adventure as he reaches 50.
• In spite of Gandalf’s assertions of Bilbo’s relative unimportance, it is clear that his path is being guided and ordained, while still allowing for his own choices.
• Gandalf acknowledges this in saying to Frodo that Bilbo was meant to find the Ring after all.
• Frodo anticipates this as a kind of fate or calling, seeing the parallels in their own lives. Bilbo’s calling was unexpected from his point of view, though both felt that calling in remaining single.
• Neither one consciously understood this calling, but they felt that needed to remain free for it.
• This is contrasted with Sam’s feelings of being torn in two when wanting to accompany Frodo to the Havens after he has gotten married and had children and feels tied to the Shire.
• Note: This is almost certainly influenced by Tolkien’s Catholic faith and the calling of priesthood.
• Frodo, of the two of them, is probably more conscious of this idea as he gets older, though he is torn between following it and resisting it, though he anticipates the choice coming to him.
• Gandalf was surprised by Frodo’s readiness to go on the quest, though not his willingness.
• Note: Though the idea of duty and calling can be related to Tolkien’s experience in the Great War, the circumstances and social expectations about volunteering were very different.
• In the end, both Bilbo and Frodo are used as instruments of Fate in bringing about these ends, and it is significant that they are both relatives of the same place and the same age when asked.

Its glory and its fall:

• Elrond gives the shortest synopsis of the Númenor story of anyone, though he will talk in more detail about the Numenorean realms-in-exile later on, for which Númenor is only a backdrop.
• Had he wanted to emphasize Númenor’s role in the Second Age, he probably would talk about Sauron’s role in its fall, but he is only interested in what happens later.
• Note: The notion that the Numenoreans were “the Kings of Men” who return is interesting, as Tolkien’s writing of “The Notion Club Papers” is probably more influential on his ideas about the Númenor story at this point in the composition of The Lord of the Rings than the later version of the “Akallabêth” story. This is similar to his changes to the Gollum character in the 1951 revised edition of The Hobbit, which is based on the version in The Lord of the Rings, not the other way around. In a similar way, the “Akallabêth” story is based on The Lord of the Rings, not vice versa.
• Frodo had associated the Numenoreans with “the people of the old kings” from the beginning which is the way they were viewed in Middle-earth. Elrond’s statement is in line with this view.
• This is contrast to the way the Numenoreans view themselves, which is as a people in exile. Though they survive through grace, they see their kingdoms as makeshift tributes.
• What Númenor provides at this point of the story is a sense of a mythic past, in which the Numenoreans are a people set aside with a legendary origin, almost like old gods.
• Elrond does hint that behind the legends is a tragedy and probably a corruption by sin.
• The way that the deeds of Elendil and his sons are described, it almost seems like they established and built their kingdoms by themselves, though this isn’t true, of course.
• However, their kingship was acknowledged by many peoples in Middle-earth upon arrival. The kingdoms of Arnor and Gondor are not peopled by the Numenoreans but ruled by them.
• Note: There is a memory of the quote about “a king is he that can hold his own” in the sense that one cannot be a king unless those who are part of that kingdom choose to follow that king. This idea of a people coming from outside who become rulers over the indigenous people by their choice is echoed with Celeborn and Galadriel in Lothlorien, or Thranduil and Legolas in Mirkwood. These are all echoes of Tolkien’s own writings of legendary leaders coming from over the sea in Númenor among the Anglo-Saxons and taken as their rulers.
• What is Elrond’s purpose in building up the story of the Numenoreans? Partly it’s to prop up Aragorn as the hereditary heir, but also as an echo of this legendary role of their kingship.
• Rather than coming out of the Sea, this time the king will come out of the mists of time in the North. Elrond is preparing the way for establishing Aragorn’s claim to the throne and role.
• This is important considering the presence of Boromir, and for any potential future conflict.
• Note: This passage was probably written by Frodo, though perhaps enhanced by Findegil. The “Kings of Men” would legitimatize Aragorn’s wars to defeat other kings who were loyal Sauron.
• Note: Aragorn would not have made his claim had the War of the Ring had not happened in his lifetime, as this was his family’s belief that the time to reveal themselves was tied to the fate of the Ring. Aragorn originally planned Minas Tirith as his destination in order to reveal himself as the heir, and it was only Gandalf’s fall in Moria and the death of Boromir that changed his plans.

Remembering the Last Alliance and the Elder Days:

• The Last Alliance seems to have been initiated and led by Elendil and his sons, not the Elves. The Elves are making a sacrifice in order to aid Elendil, not Gil-galad recruiting Elendil’s help.
• The remaining Elves are a small force compared to their former days, and they know their time is ending in Middle-earth and that this is not ultimately their war against Sauron.
• They may feel kinship with the lords of the Dúnedain, and a sense of shared destiny here.
• Elendil’s awaiting of Gil-galad at Weathertop, as described by Strider, was his awaiting a supporting force from the west before setting out for Mordor together.
• Most of the force of Arnor would be men who had taken Elendil as high king, not Numenoreans.
• Though this may seem like Elrond is highlighting his own role in this story, the immediate turn toward the greater glory of the Elder Days undermines this.
• By making this retrospective comparison, he diminishes the greatness of the Last Alliance, but also that even the greater armies of Beleriand weren’t able to end evil forever.
• This also foreshadows the idea that if the hosts of Beleriand weren’t able to end evil, military force, especially what they can muster compared to the Last Alliance, won’t do that now, either.
• Those two great armies achieved great victories, which he also says they could not do now. This may also be to head off any ideas of using the Ring to achieve such a military victory.
• He appeals to the fact that he was a personal witness to these past victories to make his point.

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[Tony Meade]

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Frodo’s surprising naiveté:

• Note: For seasoned readers of Tolkien, we take the world-building and history for granted and assume that the characters are the same, but this line shows Frodo’s limitations.
• Even if Frodo knows Elrond’s relative age intellectually, he doesn’t understand what that really means. He knows Elrond as master of lore, but his being a witness to these events shocks him.
• Note: A parallel would be to meet someone who was a witness to the siege of Troy, so long ago this was. It’s one thing to read about it, but to speak to someone who was there is different.
• Frodo’s tone is awkward, showing that he hadn’t intended to say this aloud to Elrond.
• This is a different perspective from someone like Ted Sandyman, who would be skeptical of all of this as just stories. Frodo has been taught all of this history but is confronted with the reality.
• Though Frodo was taught by Bilbo, who knew Elrond, the perspective of the Hobbits is mortal, so that even the beginning of the 1,400-year history of the Shire seems impossibly remote.

On the paradox of Middle-earth history:

• There is a paradox for readers present in Middle-earth history that isn’t true of our own.
• They have living eyewitnesses to remotely ancient events, so the scholarship necessary about our own history doesn’t exist for them. This has no parallel in the primary world.
• However, this also creates the impression that there are no mysteries in their history.
• There are few historians and no archaeologists in their primarily oral culture, so the preservation of knowledge for mortal peoples is very limited, except as myths and legends.
• Even in advanced cultures like Gondor, they don’t study other cultures the way Rome did Egypt. Gondor did not conquer foreign lands, and they had little contact with other peoples.
• Even in our own Middle Ages, the medieval scholars had access to Roman writings about other peoples and ancient times, far more than the people of Middle-earth have preserved.
• This tradition of continuity in the Middle Ages is not something available in Middle-earth. Even the legends of the Rohirrim are barely more than five centuries old.
• Those who have the long memories are in isolated and hidden realms, separated from each other and the general population, and have to be sought out in order to hear this lore.
• There are memories preserved in legends and traditions, which would circulate. Even the name of Sauron is known in the Shire, though they would not know any of the true history behind it.
• Boromir did not know about Rivendell before he was told about it by Denethor, who only knew of it from ancient legends, while Frodo is connected to Bilbo, who knows Elrond personally.
• Because of this, it seems more likely that he would be shocked than Frodo at his age, though Boromir may simply be sophisticated enough to simply not react outwardly like a Hobbit.
• Frodo might also be responding to the personal connection between Elrond and Gil-galad.

Many defeats and many fruitless victories:

• Elrond makes a similar turn as before, showing his connections to these many legendary names, but his ultimate point being that his experience tells him that they can’t win by main force.
• The idea of “fruitless victories” prepares the ground for his arguments against proposals later.
• He is also making a realistic assessment of the situation and is being candid about their peril.
• It seems as though Elrond is already sure of the course they will need to take later, and he needs to start preparing everyone to see the clarity that course as they go on in the Council.
• Note: It will be Elrond who will counsel sending the Ring to the Fire as the only viable option.
• Elrond is not saying that defeating Sauron with force is impossible, as he has witnessed it before, but he emphasizes that it took strength and leaders which they no longer have available.
• There is a hint of hope in saying that Sauron is not invincible, but not with their current strength.
• His authority as an eyewitness adds weight to his arguments as to what it takes to defeat him.
• How much was Isildur was involved in the final defeat of Sauron? Elrond reserves the praise for Elendil and Gil-galad, so it’s not clear how involved Isildur was in the final combat.
• However, he wants to emphasize that while the defeat of Sauron was the victory of Elendil and Gil-galad, it cost both of them their lives. Isildur was able to take the Ring because he survived.
• Note: Elrond will say later that Isildur stood with his father, just as Elrond and Círdan stood with Gil-galad, so this implies that they were involved in the fight somehow and were not idle.
• What is more important than the physical state of Sauron’s body is that the Ring was forcibly taken from him in defeat. It does seem as though his physical form is destroyed.

On the strength and vulnerability of Sauron:

• Note: In the films, the defeat of Sauron seems like a stroke of luck, but in truth he was overthrown in actual combat that required great power and courage and sacrifice.
• Similarly, he had been defeated by Lúthien and Huan in personal combat in the First Age.
• This is the purpose of the One Ring; to defeat the power of his enemies among Elves and Men.
• In his confrontation with Ar-Pharazôn, he is forced to abase himself and supplicate in order to defeat Númenor by deceit, instead of his original plan of domination by military force.
• Having had his armies desert in the face of the Numenoreans, he is forced to create a new plan, but this was only out of necessity and not by his choice.
• The reason why Sauron would be invincible if he were to recover the Ring is because there is no longer sufficient strength to oppose him now as there was of old.
• He is not stronger than he was in the past, but everyone else has become weaker. Even Sauron has declined over time and many defeats, too, but he has not declined as much as his enemies.
• Even with all the Wise, and great characters that remain, as strong as they are, can not directly oppose Sauron now, even working together, and therefore it is not ever suggested.
• Though Sauron’s permanent defeat requires destroying the Ring, that would be easier if they were able to defeat him first, and that is now impossible unless one of them claims the Ring.

END OF SESSION