Tony Meade
Active Member
SESSION 21
Comment on Tolkien’s retconning:
Comment on Tolkien’s retconning:
- How much of readers’ speculation would match what Tolkien himself would have said?
- We can’t know what Tolkien would have thought if he has not given an answer himself.
- There is a distinction between what actually exists between what is in the writings, and what is our own speculation based on Tolkien’s own thought process.
- Tolkien responds in a different way to questions as most other authors. Rather than approaching this works as the author, he does so as a scholar.
- He employs a combination of close reading and creativity, extrapolating from the existing text, and only rarely making up new material that builds upon the received text.
- Note: Christopher Tolkien is very conservative and restrained in his speculation.
- Sam would have had a harder time disappearing from Hobbiton, due to his role.
- Are there other, inside servants at Bag End? Perhaps occasionally, but no live-in servants.
- The plan in Crickhollow was for Sam to be the lone, live-in manservant.
- Sam and any other servants would be the source of rumors.
- What happens to the Gaffer? The Gamgees’ role as gardeners is contingent on Bilbo/Frodo’s residence at Bag End.
- The Gaffer does not own the house on Bagshot Row, as he is turned out by Lotho because he can be. Bagshot Row seems to be a part of the property of Bag End.
- The Gaffer lives at the gardener’s cottage as a pensioner, but at the pleasure of the owners.
- Sam has two brothers who have moved out, and Sam is living with this father. They might have been concerned about the fate of the Gaffer, but they wouldn’t have questioned Sam keeping his place with Frodo.
- The sale of Bag End to the Sackville-Bagginses puts the Gaffer’s residence in question.
- The Sackville-Bagginses don’t initially turn the Gaffer out, and when they do, he does get to keep his possessions.
- As the gardener of Bag End, Sam has many local and family connections that Frodo, Merry, and Pippin do not, and therefore it is harder for him to just disappear.
- This necessitates a strong cover story for Sam, which is why it is put out that Sam is coming to Crickhollow as Frodo’s servant.
- The line about the Gaffer not being consoled has many meanings. He is consoled that Sam still has a job and a place, but the prospect of Lobelia as a neighbor makes it good news/bad news.
- It’s possible that Sam’s move from gardener to personal valet is actually a promotion, which explains why the Gaffer is approving of the move.
- Note: The relationship between an army officer and his “batman” and parallels Frodo and Sam’s relationship.
- Though Sam’s humility prevents him from taking on a title above that of gardener, his role and relationship with Frodo is much more of a personal servant.
- Sam’s role in the quest also breaks down the traditional roles of master and servant.
- Merry is the one person who stays with Frodo during the day after the Long-Expected Party.
- He assists Frodo with the distribution of gifts, and there is no mention of him leaving after Gandalf arrives.
- Merry also confesses to have spied on Frodo. We don’t know if he overheard their conversation, but it would fit the pattern of what he does before, with the Red Book, and afterwards.
- It’s possible that Sam might have been recruited during the five years that Gandalf came and went. He might not have had much to do for the last nine years, but they would need him to keep an eye on Frodo and to let them know if anything strange happened.
- Sam and Merry are rough contemporaries and might have heard the same stories as kids.
- Sam is also already well-known as a source of information, as shown before the party.
- Sam is the one person of the lower classes who is an insider at Bag End, and Merry and Pippin would know that.
- If Sam was already convinced that Merry and Pippin were Frodo’s concerned friends, he might have passed on information to them for years, as he was already employed at Bag End in Bilbo’s time.
- No one in the conspiracy knows about the nature of the Ring until Gandalf tells Frodo.
- Gandalf may have been wise to the conspiracy already, having mentioned spies just before catching Sam, and decided to leverage their cleverness and loyalty to help Frodo.
- If this is true, Gandalf may be passing a message to the other conspirators to stay quiet.
- Was this an idle threat? Could Gandalf actually do this?
- There aren’t any instances in the text of wizards transfiguring anything into anything else.
- Beren and Lúthien transform themselves using magic, and Elwing is transformed by the Valar.
- Transforming someone into a toad is a fairy tale motif, and fairy tale motifs seem to be part of Hobbit folklore.
- Stories that are like traditional fairy tales are the kind of stories that Gandalf tells the hobbits.
- Frodo is the one who brings up the transformation, but Sam must believe in it, as he is actually scared of it happening.
- There is no evidence one way or the other that Gandalf can do this.
- It is probable that Gandalf actually can do this, as he repeats that threat and that the things that Bilbo mentions as part of fairy tales actually come true in The Hobbit.
- This is based on the dwarf song from the beginning of The Hobbit.
- The song is in iambic tetrameter, just like most Hobbit poetry.
- The feel of the song gives the impression of the hobbits dancing around Frodo.
- The structure of the song is the same as the dwarf song, using the same rhyme scheme as well.
- The dwarf song is darker in tone and more solemn, with a theme of longing. The darkness is explicit in that most of the song is about what happens in dark, underground places.
- The hobbit song is bouncier and lighter in tone. It is a song of exuberant farewell.
- The stanzas of the hobbit are more broken up into more than one sentence, while the dwarf song has one sentence take up the entire stanza.
- The first stanza does not say why the hobbits are leaving and gives the impression that this could be an unusually intrepid hobbit walking party.
- The hobbit song is about where they are leaving, while the dwarf song is about their destination.
- The hobbits know that they are going to Rivendell, but nothing after that.
- The dwarves stop talking about themselves and focus on the history behind their journey.
- There is a discrepancy in the dangerous content of the hobbit poem and its lighthearted tone.
- The hobbits seem to be using more monosyllables, which makes it sound bouncier.
- There is also an extra monosyllable in each line, that adds to the bouncy quality.
- There is a repetition of the idea that they will have their adventure and then be done.
- This song serves as the final touch on the previous conversation concerning Frodo’s danger and the quest lying ahead.
- There is an impression that Merry and Pippin know about the facts of what they might be facing, but that they still don’t understand the true peril that they will face.
- The talk afterwards reinforces this. Pippin does not seem concerned enough to not understand the need to leave early, and we see before that Merry hasn’t seen the Black Riders.
- The level of understanding of the other hobbits will play later into the decision to take them with the Fellowship or to leave them behind.