Tony Meade
Active Member
SESSION 30
Comment on the influence of Virgil’s Eclogues on the willow trees in the Old Forest:
Comment on the influence of Virgil’s Eclogues on the willow trees in the Old Forest:
- In these works, the willow trees put people to sleep as well.
- The farmer described begins to also sound a lot like Tom Bombadil in that text.
- The coincidence of these concepts in the two works may be less influence and more Tolkien and Virgil both being interested in similar things and speaking in similar ways about them.
- Their shared interest seems to be the concept of contentment and self-sufficiency in creating an ordered farm in the midst of the wild.
- Of course, Tolkien studied classics, so influence is not out of the question, but he also had original creations, which may be in parallel to older sources.
- The reference to “river-daughter” may be to that of the flora and fauna supported by the river.
- This would include water-lilies, which themselves produce a yellow flower.
- The word “berry” in Goldberry’s name may refer to “fruit” of the river plants, meaning the flowers.
- Reeds and water-lilies are the two plants explicitly named in reference to Goldberry.
- She should then be considered a spirit of the river flowers, rather than simply a water spirit. The water flowers could be considered the “daughters of the river”.
- The comparison to a “reed by a pool”, and her wearing a gown which is “green as young reeds” and “covered in living flowers” make a connection to river plant life.
- Tom originally found her sitting among the reeds and water flowers by the banks of the Withywindle, which is exactly where one would expect to find a river flower spirit.
- It is probably her influence as a flower spirit that causes the water-lilies to linger so long, and to last all through the winter in Tom’s house.
- Most people have interpreted “river-daughter” to mean that she is a derivative water spirit of the spirit of the Withywindle, but her symbolism is much more in line with the flowering plants.
- When examining relations between allegorical figures or divinities in mythology, the symbolism in relation between the figures is all-important.
- All of Tom’s song lyrics about her also point to her water plant imagery.
- Note: In Andrew Lang’s fairy-stories, there is also a tale of a maiden being transformed into a water flower. This may not be a direct reference, but it’s a similar idea.
- The direct description goes beyond her symbolism, but her yellow hair and green dress is a direct comparison to water-lilies.
- Tom’s collecting water-lilies for Goldberry is a direct reference or recapitulation of his marriage.
- Note: The words for “nymph” and “water-lily” are directly related in Greek.
- There is an innocence imposed upon the hobbit’s fascination with Goldberry’s movements.
- This is not sexual, but more related to her natural grace, which is like the enjoyment of watching trees and plants and water by a river, which is unlike human movement.
- What are we interpret from Tom’s constant singing, especially about the color of his clothing?
- There seems to be a childlike quality about Tom that is without pride or dignity.
- There is possibly something in the lack of pride or ego in Tom that is designed to test the egocentricity of the readers.
- Note: Tom was originally inspired by one of Priscilla’s dolls, but that does not necessarily explain Tom’s childlike qualities.
- The space of Tom’s house, both physically and spiritually, allows one to delight in beauty without having inappropriate desires, which allows the hobbits to have their response to them.
- One quality of both Tom and Goldberry is innocence and purity, without corruption, that allows them to take such joy in their surroundings.
- There is a separation from evil within Tom’s home, but they are not themselves ignorant of evil or suffering, having witnessed much over their time in the world.
- Tom is an opposite of Saruman at the time of the Scouring, contrasting between an unspoiled and spoiled land and character.
- There is an emphasis on the quality of the colors, being described as “bright”. The colors are not totally unnatural, but it is striking how much they don’t blend into their surroundings.
- The colors are also prime colors, which are unmixed.
- Tom has no need of camouflage, as he has no fear.
- What material are the boots made from? Rubber is not possible.
- Tom is not only merry and singing merrily but is also singing about merriment itself. In doing so, he is broadcasting his joy and inviting others to join in with that joy.
- Is Tom a spirit of joy itself? Is he associated with Nienna? This is hard to say, and Tolkien does not explain how Tom fits into the Silmarillion mythology.
- Note: This passage has led to the theory that Tom is in fact Eru Ilúvatar, due to the use of the phrase “He is”, echoing the phrase “I am that I am” as the name for God in the Bible. This was brought up during Tolkien’s lifetime, and he denied this correlation. This is also an example of Tolkien’s way of interacting with his own texts, approaching them as a reader and scholar, rather than as the original author. This is in contrast with many other authors’ approach.
- Frodo seems to be mistaking the question “who is he?” for the question “what is he?” Frodo may have meant “what” but Goldberry is answering the spoken question of “who”.
- Her clarification is drawing Frodo’s attention to what he has actually experienced, rather to any possible mysteries.
- Goldberry’s response is to the quality of Frodo’s question, though she is willing to expound.
- Note: There is a parallel to the story of David and Saul, after the king has met David and his defeat of Goliath, asking “who is he?”. He knows who David is, but he is asking a deeper question about his identity and importance within the fate of the world.
- What Goldberry (and Tolkien) is saying to Frodo is that there is no deeper mystery, and that Frodo only needs to examine his own experience of Tom to answer his own question.
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