I had never connected these two paragraphs in LOTR, but they are now forever linked in my mind as bookends to the quest. Frodo, in a peaceful place, Rivendell, is looking at an "earthy" star, either Borgil or Mars. It doesn't matter to me which. The sight of that star, even in his safety, is disquieting. It intrudes on his peace and rest. Sam, in an unsafe place, Mordor, sees a clear white star, shining through the wrack of clouds devised by the Enemy, an "other-worldly" star, Earendil, the light from the Silmaril he bears, and it brings such immediate relief to him that he is, for the first time in many days, able to cast himself into an untroubled sleep. He finds rest to his soul. It is not unlike the virtue in Elrond's ring, though it comes from far away, and as the world intrudes onto the virtue of Elrond's ring in Rivendell, that virtue is paused, at least for Frodo. For me, this is the quest we are all on, to let virtue be our guide, our refuge, our solace, and to not let the world intrude too much upon us and stop us from the healing power of that virtue. As a Christian, I think of Matthew 11:28, "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn of me, for I am meek and lowly of heart, and you shall find rest to your soul. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."
Frodo's Star and Sam's Star
- Thread starter KayeG.
- Start date
Rachel Port
Well-Known Member
I wrote this in another discussion:
As for Sam and Frodo and their stars, what occurred to me in class was that Frodo is in a place of goodness and protection, and sees a star that brings thoughts of the terrors ahead; Sam sees Earendil's star while in Mordor, and finds strength and estel. I get uncomfortable with Christian theological interpretation, and the way that sometimes gets taken for granted in this class. On the other hand, there is a midrash (a form of commentary that is a story that "fills in the spaces") that when the Israelites came to the Sea, the waters didn't part until the first person stepped into it. It took an act of faith to complete the miracle. The amdir looked bleak, it needed estel to complete the miracle. I don't know how that fits with your thoughts.
I commented on this relationship between the two stars also in the YouTube chat during class. I think it's a very powerful connection. I'm glad you saw it too.
As for Sam and Frodo and their stars, what occurred to me in class was that Frodo is in a place of goodness and protection, and sees a star that brings thoughts of the terrors ahead; Sam sees Earendil's star while in Mordor, and finds strength and estel. I get uncomfortable with Christian theological interpretation, and the way that sometimes gets taken for granted in this class. On the other hand, there is a midrash (a form of commentary that is a story that "fills in the spaces") that when the Israelites came to the Sea, the waters didn't part until the first person stepped into it. It took an act of faith to complete the miracle. The amdir looked bleak, it needed estel to complete the miracle. I don't know how that fits with your thoughts.
I commented on this relationship between the two stars also in the YouTube chat during class. I think it's a very powerful connection. I'm glad you saw it too.
A comment on the word "yoke" (mentioned above) as it relates to the Lord of the Ring text. We find the word "furlong" as a measure of distance several times in the text. As I understand it, it derives from "furrow" and "long", meaning the length that a team of yoked oxen could plow without rest. Thus, whenever we read of a furlong in the text, there is an implicit reference to the word yoke, suggesting a partnership between two oxen working for a while and then resting. Or perhaps we should say three, two oxen and one man. Many forget what an important agricultural implement the yoke is, in that it enables the oxen to do work that would otherwise be impossible. A rope simply tied around the neck of the ox would choke him if he tried to pull a plow with it. With the yoke, he and his partner(s) do not choke, but work until it is time to rest.
So likewise we see Frodo and Sam yoked together, working for a while, resting, and then starting again. It is during periods of rest that Frodo and Sam see their stars, and for Sam, it reinforces his rest so that he is enabled to go on to the next phase of work. I rather like enjoy the cycles of work (or stress) and rest that we see in the text. The time in Rivendell was one of extended rest after a time of extended stress (or work). We'll see another rest break in Lothlorien, with Faramir, and in a small way with Sam's star.
So likewise we see Frodo and Sam yoked together, working for a while, resting, and then starting again. It is during periods of rest that Frodo and Sam see their stars, and for Sam, it reinforces his rest so that he is enabled to go on to the next phase of work. I rather like enjoy the cycles of work (or stress) and rest that we see in the text. The time in Rivendell was one of extended rest after a time of extended stress (or work). We'll see another rest break in Lothlorien, with Faramir, and in a small way with Sam's star.
Thank you for sharing that! I love the idea of Frodo and Sam being yoked together. It's obvious that's the only way this whole quest could have worked, and I love as well the idea that they were yoked with other forces, some seen (Gandalf) and some unseen (Eru) as they worked at what was literally an impossible task. That help from hidden sources or unforeseen sources, like Faramir and even, at times, Gollum, is one of my favorite themes of the books as well.
Flammifer
Well-Known Member
Borgil and Mars are probably one and the same. Asterion made a very good case for this:
"Hi! As already discussed in Episode 13 around the 1:22:00 mark, "red Borgil" is normally associated to Aldebaran, with other candidates being Betlegeuse and Mars. I think Betlegeuse can be easily discarded, and Mars is normally discarded due to two reasons:
1. Although it can be seen around midnight in late September below the Pleiades (Remmirath) and above Orion (Menelmacar), this is rarely the case.
2. The name for Mars is elsewhere (Morgoth's Ring) given as Carnil/Karnil.
I have read an interesting article (https://funkmon.wordpress.com/2014/01/06/identifying-borgil/) where it states that, since Carnil is Quenya for "red star", and Borgil is Sindarin for "red star", the association of Carnil with Mars would be an argument for identifying Borgil as Mars, not actually against it. I must agree here, as I think it would be unusual to give the exact same name in Quenya and Sindarin to two different stars.
As to the first counter-argument, I have been checking the night sky eastwards as seen from Oxford on every September 24th at midnight during Tolkien's life, and in 1943 Mars appears exactly where Borgil should be: between the Pleiades and Orion, at the same apparent height as Aldebaran." (Asterion, in this forum)
I find Asterion's case pretty compelling. Especially the linguistic part (even though it relys on 'Morgoth's Ring' for the translation of Carnil in Quenya into Mars in English.
So, I think there are two times that Frodo looks upon Borgil. The first time, with Gildor in Woody End. He sees the star as beautiful and tranquil. The second time, in Rivendell, he sees it as ominous and threatening. It is not the star influencing how Frodo thinks. It is Frodo, influencing how he sees the star.
By the way, I can think of another reference to Earendil's star. In 'The Mirror of Galadriel' Frodo and Galadriel look up and see Earendil's star.
That makes at least four signicant star sightings mentioned in TLOTR. Can anyone think of any more?