Galadriel in season 6

Orion

New Member
What are we doing with Galadriel this season? Is she going to be completely absent until maybe the very end with B+L in Ossiriand?
I'm thinking about the fact that she's Finrod's sister, so would know when he dies. Perhaps we could have a scene of her reacting to that, or maybe she goes to visit Finrod's grave at Tol Sirion. Maybe there isn't time, but it feels like a bit of a waste to do nothing with her.
 
What are we doing with Galadriel this season? Is she going to be completely absent until maybe the very end with B+L in Ossiriand?
I'm thinking about the fact that she's Finrod's sister, so would know when he dies. Perhaps we could have a scene of her reacting to that, or maybe she goes to visit Finrod's grave at Tol Sirion. Maybe there isn't time, but it feels like a bit of a waste to do nothing with her.

Yup. I've been thinking about that as well. A visit with Luthien while she is treebound might be enough to avoid her reacting to Finrod's death feeling out of place.
 
Yup. I've been thinking about that as well. A visit with Luthien while she is treebound might be enough to avoid her reacting to Finrod's death feeling out of place.

She does come for the wedding? And does she have Nimloth with them - Nimloth is Galadriel's hunsband's niece after all?

Beyond that, when does Galadriel leave for Eregion?

Because if Elwing is 8 years when Dior and Nimloth are killed there is imho no way Galadriel would leave Elwing alone in the care of some coutiers without fostering her herself - she is her next kin female relative and had probably been at Elwing's (and her brothers' before that, and maybe even Dior's himself) very birth in Ossiriand.

I cannot see how Galadriel could leave a minor Elwing without any care just to be able to wander around with Celeborn. This would be betraying the memory all - Thingol, Melian, Luthien and Nimloth.
 
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She does come for the wedding? And does she have Nimloth with them - Nimloth is Galadriel's hunsband's niece after all?

Beyond that, when does Galadriel leave for Eregion?

Because if Elwing is 8 years when Dior and Nimloth are killed there is imho no way Galadriel would leave Elwing alone in the care of some coutiers without fostering her herself - she is her next kin female relative and had probably been at Elwing's (and her brother's before that, and maybe even Dior's himself) very birth in Ossiriand.

I cannot see how Galadriel could leave a minor Elwing without any care just to be able to wander around with Celeborn. This would be betraying the memory all - Thingol, Melian, Luthien and Nimloth.

I think that S07 would be a good time for Galadriel and Celeborn to leave Middle-earth, after they fail to talk the Noldor out of the assault on Angband.
 
I think that S07 would be a good time for Galadriel and Celeborn to leave Middle-earth, after they fail to talk the Noldor out of the assault on Angband.
Do you mean Beleriand? Galadriel at the least will still be in Middle-Earth until the end of the Third Age.
 
Opportunities for Galadriel to appear in Season 6:

Episode 5 - if she is randomly visiting Doriath for some reason, she could have a background role in the treehouse situation

Episode 7 - she could react to the death of Finrod, the way she reacted to the deaths of Angrod and Aegnor in Season 5 Episode 12

Episode 11 - she can be present in Doriath for Lúthien's wedding

Episode 12 - does Carcaroth impact Ossiriand? I doubt it...

Episode 13 - part of the ending, showing her with Celeborn in Ossiriand


If she appears in 4 different episodes, we won't be forgetting about her, even though she doesn't have a character arc this season.
 
Opportunities for Galadriel to appear in Season 6:

Episode 5 - if she is randomly visiting Doriath for some reason, she could have a background role in the treehouse situation

Episode 7 - she could react to the death of Finrod, the way she reacted to the deaths of Angrod and Aegnor in Season 5 Episode 12

Episode 11 - she can be present in Doriath for Lúthien's wedding

Episode 12 - does Carcaroth impact Ossiriand? I doubt it...

Episode 13 - part of the ending, showing her with Celeborn in Ossiriand


If she appears in 4 different episodes, we won't be forgetting about her, even though she doesn't have a character arc this season.

Still one unaswered question. Where is Nimloth? She lives in Ossirand? So she is assiociated with her uncle and his wife, she is also Thingol's kinsfolk as her mother and they themselves are. As such both Nimloth and Celeborn's sister should at least be there at the wedding?

[I think we should slowly open a B&L wedding guest list.

Could Bombadil not be there? If he is in Beleriand as yet, would Melian not have invited him?]
 
Still one unaswered question. Where is Nimloth? She lives in Ossirand? So she is assiociated with her uncle and his wife, she is also Thingol's kinsfolk as her mother and they themselves are. As such both Nimloth and Celeborn's sister should at least be there at the wedding?

[I think we should slowly open a B&L wedding guest list.

Could Bombadil not be there? If he is in Beleriand as yet, would Melian not have invited him?]
another question: does Nimloth have to be Celeborn's Niece? Remember that Elrond is Nimloth's grandson and will be marrying Celebrían, Celeborn's daughter. Do we really want Elrond and Celebrían to be so closely related - they would be first cousins twice removed
 
another question: does Nimloth have to be Celeborn's Niece? Remember that Elrond is Nimloth's grandson and will be marrying Celebrían, Celeborn's daughter. Do we really want Elrond and Celebrían to be so closely related - they would be first cousins twice removed

That is the point, as this is is dynastic marriage cementing Dior right to the throne of Doriath - both Celeborn and his sister - Nimloth's mother - (in original it was a brother) are Thingols cousins as is Galadriel (who is a grand-niece to Thingol).

Celebrian is connected to Thingol on both her parent's sides and Elrond is Thingol's only surviving male heir (beside Elrond's sons). This is typical for semi-divine sacred dynastic royal bloodlines.

Oropher - Thranduil's father and Legolas' grandfather - is also a kinsman to Thingol.

Amdir's - Amroth father's - background is unknown but given that one of his names seem to be Malgalad - "Gold-shine" and that Thrainduil is also golden-haired it seems that Thingol's blood-kin (except for his daughter and her offsping, which gets "Melian's magic black" hair) is blonde or silver-haired - but not the usual elvish dark-haired.

Altogether it seems all Sindar/Teleri ruler's are Thingol's kin (even Cirdan is one) and that seems to be the point.

It makes perfect sense for Dior - a half-human - to want to streghten his connection to the royal line by marrying close kin to his grandfather?
 
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another question: does Nimloth have to be Celeborn's Niece? Remember that Elrond is Nimloth's grandson and will be marrying Celebrían, Celeborn's daughter. Do we really want Elrond and Celebrían to be so closely related - they would be first cousins twice removed

"Have to" is a very strong term here. Nimloth may or may not present herself to be a major character, and as such, the audience may not even learn her lineage. Also, depending on whether or not she has a story of her own that we are going to focus on (or if we are going to spend any time with Dior prior to his taking the throne), she may not even have to be introduced until after Thingol's death.
 
"Have to" is a very strong term here. Nimloth may or may not present herself to be a major character, and as such, the audience may not even learn her lineage. Also, depending on whether or not she has a story of her own that we are going to focus on (or if we are going to spend any time with Dior prior to his taking the throne), she may not even have to be introduced until after Thingol's death.

Nimloth is the reason why Elwing chooses an elvish fate - overruling Earendil's own inclination - surely she is an important catalyst? Had Earendil chosen otherwise - he could not become a star, he would have died, there would be no Fall of Numenor and no round world?
 
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No, Nimloth was not Elwing's reason for choosing an elven fate. In the published Silmarillion, she was said to do so because of Lúthien. Presumably, as a 'counter' to Lúthien's choice to be mortal. Nor did she overrule Eärendil - he asked her to choose, and he went with what she said so they would remain together. We are told it was not his inclination, but he specifically asked her to choose for them, without stating his own preference. Regardless, Nimloth will (eventually) be Dior's wife and Elwing's mother in Silm Film.

In our adaptation, many of Elwë's kin are killed by the Hunter at Cuiviénen. Celeborn survives, and is established as Elwë's kin, but the precise relationship is never stated. I recognize that Tolkien came up with a family tree, but we agreed to never name Elmo on screen in this adaptation, so it's rather a moot point. We've also made Celeborn significantly older, as an elf from Cuiviénen, so that family tree is not accurate for our show. Galathil, in our adaptation, is Celeborn's sister who lives among the Nandor (and has since they became the Nandor). She will survive into the Third Age as well. She was brought into the story for her reaction to the Galadriel and Celeborn relationship. Since they went to live in Ossiriand, not Doriath, after their wedding, it's clear how that worked out.

We have not yet introduced Galathil's husband, nor have we established that she has a daughter. So, as such, Nimloth is not yet a character in Silm Film, and when and how she will be introduced has not yet been determined. So, there is still time to discuss her origin. I see no reason to introduce her in Season 6. While she may play a significant role in future seasons, we have not yet planned out those plotlines.

As for dynastic marriages, that is decidedly not the elven approach to these things, and first cousins is of course not acceptable. Elrond is also, though, related to all of the characters in the Silmarillion in some way.
 
As for dynastic marriages, that is decidedly not the elven approach to these things, and first cousins is of course not acceptable. Elrond is also, though, related to all of the characters in the Silmarillion in some way.

That might not be the stated reason, but still all the marriages are among rank equals and do clearly follow a dynastic political pattern. You do not have a lady like Galadriel marrying rank-less unconnected elf - does not happen - he has to be Thingol's kinsman as she herself is. Same with Elrond or Dior. Even the humans marrying among elvish royalty in are heirs of ruling houses. There are mixed marriages regarding to race (elf-human) but not in regards to rank. Even Eol has a realm of his own.

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I see conflicting dates for Luthien's 2nd death" 503 or 506?

In 503 Elwing heself is born, so she would not have seen her grandmother Luthien, otherwise she would have been tree when she died and this would also make Elwing 3 at her own parents' death later in the year. Had she a human memory she would not have remembered neither her grand-parents nor her parents. She might have an elven memory in which case she could remember both pairs of her ancestors.

If Dior is mortal then his wife is permently separeted from him and both their sons. Nimloth's daughter Elwing and grandson Elrond are the only descendants that she has in Valinor after her reembodiment. So here a married couple is split post mortem. This is a new development we haven't seen as yet. Might be one of the reasons why Elwing is given a choice - to remedy this injustice [I still do hold the primary reason is Valar's cunning plan to have the Ainu bloodline in both humans and elves]. Still it is to much of an issue to leave in the background - imho it will confuse the audience if unexplained - as we just had a demostation how problematic such union is with Dior's parents post mortem - and now the problem is repeated again without providing any resolution?
 
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Dior is mortal. Look at his age when he marries.

The timeline of the end of the First Age is extremely murky, so we will have choices to make about our characters and stories for sure.

We are, however, given information about the scene where Eärendil and Elwing are given their choice, and we will likely start with what is included in that scene before creating our story around that. Namely, Manwë states that he has authority to offer them the choice, that Eärendil defers to Elwing, and that Elwing makes her choice for Lúthien's sake.
 
Dior is mortal. Look at his age when he marries.
That means Nimloth is older, presumably much. As Dior marries just a few decades from now, she has to be around already. If we do not show her at all now it would look strange. E.g. Daeron has been introduced long before this season.

The timeline of the end of the First Age is extremely murky, so we will have choices to make about our characters and stories for sure.

We are, however, given information about the scene where Eärendil and Elwing are given their choice, and we will likely start with what is included in that scene before creating our story around that. Namely, Manwë states that he has authority to offer them the choice, that Eärendil defers to Elwing, and that Elwing makes her choice for Lúthien's sake.

Imho:

Galadriel and Celeborn must be out of the picture before Thingol is killed - otherwise Celeborn would be one of Thingol's possible successors - and as his kinsman in duty to awenge him - even before Beren as an in-law.

G&C must be far away before Elwing is orphaned or Galadriel would be the one in duty to foster her.

Also those Doriathim coutiers who save and raise Elwing must be introduced as part of Thingol's court this and/or next season. They cannot be no-names. They would be the ones to facilitate Elwing's marriage to Earendil at the Havens of Sirion.

If we want Elwing's choice to be influenced by Luthien - the grandmother she barely remembers - than Daeron must be one of those who raise her - he would sing to her her grandmother's praises all day long and complain about her dying a human death to make the very idea an issue for Elwing.

Then what is the relationship of Galadriel and Nimloth's mother in Ossiriand? Are they on good terms? Is Galathil likely in character to approve her daughter's marriage to Dior or is she likely to disown her then? Does she needs some development to come from one point to another? Does Galathil return to Doriath when her daughter is queen there? Is she the one to save and raise Elwing or is she killed?

Will be have the time and space to introduce all of that during the Túrin story?

Or has something to be hinted at/set in motion already this season?
 
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