Fell Critter
Member
while the history and geography of Middle-earth is undeniably fictitious, I believe it is meant to be our world, and that it has bits of truth mixed in - that certain places and events correspond to something real, or mythological, even though others are entirely fictitious, or inspired by fiction.
if anyone has found a potential link between actual or mythical places or place names, and those in Middle-earth or Valinor, post it here, and maybe we can gradually come to a clearer picture of what these stories draw upon, or what they're meant to represent. I say this, bearing in mind that even when clear parallels are established, this might not tell us very much, as it's often difficult or impossible to guess the true significance of myths, or other remnants of the distant past. but that there is a link is important.
there have been numerous attempts to overlay maps of Middle-earth onto maps of Europe, but I don't believe that approach will reveal very much - actually I think it would probably lead to false identifications.
"In the changes of the world the shapes of lands and of seas have been broken and remade; rivers have not kept their courses, neither have mountains remained steadfast..."
when Tolkien was drawing his maps, the theory of plate tectonics was just beginning to come into its own. maybe if he'd waited a little later, he might have drawn them differently, or maybe not; clearly he was trying to make his world unrecognizable, and yet it still has very noticeable similarities. in any case, we can't look to scientific theories of continental drift to find out where things would have ended up - but that's not to say that recognizable features aren't depicted somewhat removed from their familiar position. then again, Tolkien would have been well within his license to simply create fictional territories out of whole cloth.
but there's also a similarity to consider between maps of Middle-earth, and medieval maps of Europe, Asia and Africa, in which lands and seas were only vaguely defined. it may be that these maps are likewise not meant to be perfectly accurate, although it's clear that they can't depict the world as it is today. but that a version of Europe, North Africa and the Near East is represented here seems obvious.
probably the best way to identify places in Middle-earth is through their names, their descriptions, their histories and their neighbors. it may be that many of them are completely fictitious after all: but I suspect that there are places that exist in reality, or only in myth, which captured Tolkien's imagination as having played important roles in the ages of myth, which could be scattered throughout Middle-earth in ways that disguise their identities... or in ways that beg to be recognized.
sadly, I can barely even start us off with this, but as I find things, I'll post them here, and I hope others will do the same, even if they're just theories or guesses - but the more solid the link, the better. I'll try to build on this, if I can.
so not to sound as condescending as possible, but Middle-earth is naturally a reference to Midgard, or not even a reference, but its literal meaning. Midgard is meant to be the middlemost of nine worlds in Yggdrasil, but it's unclear whether that meaning has any place here... instead, Middle-earth seems to mean 'situated between East and West', or something completely different, east and west perhaps being symbolic of Beginning and End. would be interested if anyone knows anything more about that.
I also believe that Arda, and probably also the word 'earth' itself is related to the Vedic word 'arta' (Avestan asha) which refers to truth, and order, although there are many words in many languages that this could be easily derived from, to thinly conceal that Arda is Earth.
Ea, meanwhile, seems to have more of a connection to a specific deity, which I'll get into elsewhere.
more interesting is the connection between Mirkwood and the Hercynian Forest (not Hyrcanian Forest), now the Black Forest, in southern Germany, in the name Myrkvidhr.
I also think that the sea of Rhun could be meant to represent the Black Sea, which has to do with both being as far east as anyone from the west was known to venture. in ancient times, the kingdom of Colchis was on the eastern shore of the Black Sea, and was considered by the Greeks to be in the furthest east - the kings of Colchis were even considered to be descendents of Helios, as though Colchis itself was the place where the sun rose. apparently the Greeks preferred sailing over walking.
I've only begun looking at this, but it makes me wonder which if any of the rivers of Europe could be identified in Middle-earth - because it seems that the Rhine and the Danube in particular should be among them (maybe even the Nile). prominent mountains may also be something to watch out for.
I always thought Mordor resembled the Arabian peninsula... but apparently Tolkien identified Mount Doom as Stromboli?? which would put Mordor at at the bottom of the Tyrrhenian Sea? the orientation looks upside-down to me.
if anyone has found a potential link between actual or mythical places or place names, and those in Middle-earth or Valinor, post it here, and maybe we can gradually come to a clearer picture of what these stories draw upon, or what they're meant to represent. I say this, bearing in mind that even when clear parallels are established, this might not tell us very much, as it's often difficult or impossible to guess the true significance of myths, or other remnants of the distant past. but that there is a link is important.
there have been numerous attempts to overlay maps of Middle-earth onto maps of Europe, but I don't believe that approach will reveal very much - actually I think it would probably lead to false identifications.
"In the changes of the world the shapes of lands and of seas have been broken and remade; rivers have not kept their courses, neither have mountains remained steadfast..."
when Tolkien was drawing his maps, the theory of plate tectonics was just beginning to come into its own. maybe if he'd waited a little later, he might have drawn them differently, or maybe not; clearly he was trying to make his world unrecognizable, and yet it still has very noticeable similarities. in any case, we can't look to scientific theories of continental drift to find out where things would have ended up - but that's not to say that recognizable features aren't depicted somewhat removed from their familiar position. then again, Tolkien would have been well within his license to simply create fictional territories out of whole cloth.
but there's also a similarity to consider between maps of Middle-earth, and medieval maps of Europe, Asia and Africa, in which lands and seas were only vaguely defined. it may be that these maps are likewise not meant to be perfectly accurate, although it's clear that they can't depict the world as it is today. but that a version of Europe, North Africa and the Near East is represented here seems obvious.
probably the best way to identify places in Middle-earth is through their names, their descriptions, their histories and their neighbors. it may be that many of them are completely fictitious after all: but I suspect that there are places that exist in reality, or only in myth, which captured Tolkien's imagination as having played important roles in the ages of myth, which could be scattered throughout Middle-earth in ways that disguise their identities... or in ways that beg to be recognized.
sadly, I can barely even start us off with this, but as I find things, I'll post them here, and I hope others will do the same, even if they're just theories or guesses - but the more solid the link, the better. I'll try to build on this, if I can.
so not to sound as condescending as possible, but Middle-earth is naturally a reference to Midgard, or not even a reference, but its literal meaning. Midgard is meant to be the middlemost of nine worlds in Yggdrasil, but it's unclear whether that meaning has any place here... instead, Middle-earth seems to mean 'situated between East and West', or something completely different, east and west perhaps being symbolic of Beginning and End. would be interested if anyone knows anything more about that.
I also believe that Arda, and probably also the word 'earth' itself is related to the Vedic word 'arta' (Avestan asha) which refers to truth, and order, although there are many words in many languages that this could be easily derived from, to thinly conceal that Arda is Earth.
Ea, meanwhile, seems to have more of a connection to a specific deity, which I'll get into elsewhere.
more interesting is the connection between Mirkwood and the Hercynian Forest (not Hyrcanian Forest), now the Black Forest, in southern Germany, in the name Myrkvidhr.
I also think that the sea of Rhun could be meant to represent the Black Sea, which has to do with both being as far east as anyone from the west was known to venture. in ancient times, the kingdom of Colchis was on the eastern shore of the Black Sea, and was considered by the Greeks to be in the furthest east - the kings of Colchis were even considered to be descendents of Helios, as though Colchis itself was the place where the sun rose. apparently the Greeks preferred sailing over walking.
I've only begun looking at this, but it makes me wonder which if any of the rivers of Europe could be identified in Middle-earth - because it seems that the Rhine and the Danube in particular should be among them (maybe even the Nile). prominent mountains may also be something to watch out for.
I always thought Mordor resembled the Arabian peninsula... but apparently Tolkien identified Mount Doom as Stromboli?? which would put Mordor at at the bottom of the Tyrrhenian Sea? the orientation looks upside-down to me.
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