House of Haleth

D

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I guess it is because the Haladin are supposed to be small.
I was just wondering if this is flexible at all. if so, can we just make sure that the heads of houses, or at least prominent characters, have the right ratios. So as long as you lined up the three house heads and Haleth was the smallest, that’d be fine right?
 
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Haerangil

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As far as i understand yes. I didn't understand why the execs wanted Haleth tall, but there are things i'll just have to accept, that does not necessarily mean i have to agree.Any way, this is just a fanfic project, an imaginary film.In the end it is not a big deal.
 
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Haakon

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Personally I think perhaps we have to stick a little less to the height requirement, so that we prioritise ethnicity and personality before height. To be honest, most of the time it’s possible to arrange how tall someone appears to be.
 

Nicholas Palazzo

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As far as i understand yes. I didn't understand why the execs wanted Haleth tall, but there are things i'll just have to accept, that does not necessarily mean i have to agree.Any way, this is just a fanfic project, an imaginary film.In the end it is not a big deal.
To my understanding, this has been clarified to "... tall for a Haladin woman, who are quite short... "
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
I was just wondering if this is flexible at all. if so, can we just make sure that the heads of houses, or at least prominent characters, have the right ratios. So as long as you lined up the three house heads and Haleth was the smallest, that’d be fine right?
There will, in fact, be a shot of this kind, in that Hador, Andreth, and Haleth are on screen together during one episode.
 

Haakon

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To me, the height criteria wasn't a problem as much as the fact that when I google or search IMDB, I get the impression that actresses in India and Pakistan in many cases seem to be trained to act as far from a brutal fighter as possible.
 
D

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To me, the height criteria wasn't a problem as much as the fact that when I google or search IMDB, I get the impression that actresses in India and Pakistan in many cases seem to be trained to act as far from a brutal fighter as possible.
I don’t think we need to worry about this too much. I mean...Chris Pratt.

A good actor can act out of type. If there’s enough to suggest they can carry a weighty role, I think the specifics of physical skills and training we can leave to put fictional trainers and stunt coordinators.

The bigger problem I’ve found is a clear lack of South Asian actors in mainstream media.
 

Haerangil

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That's why i would not restrict myself to a specific nationality.I guess my idea is an actor who might believably represent a type or group one could , by look or appearance , liken to people from southeastern asia or the indian subcontinent.
 
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That's why i would not restrict myself to a specific nationality.I guess my idea is an actor who might believably represent a type or group one could , by look or appearance , liken to people from southeastern asia or the indian subcontinent.
Yeah, I think Pakistan and India were people generalising (not ideal, I grant you). That's why I've been thinking 'South Asian descent' when it comes to casting.
 

MithLuin

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I admit that I do not watch Bollywood films, so I have no real concept of what actresses in them do. Presumably not a lot of serious fight scenes. But teaching fight choreography to a dancer is not difficult, and I am sure there are plenty of dancers in those! The challenge is not to find an 'action hero' type, but rather someone with a very forceful personality. If that person happens to be bulky and trained with weapons, so much the better.

Sense8 was filmed in different countries, with actors from those countries (in most cases), and has a storyline in India. The show is sci-fi, lots of car chases and gun battles and martial arts. A secret evil government agency, cops, gangs, the mob, prisons, hospitals, all of that. Kala, the main character in India, is one of the least 'action-oriented' members of the cast. Her storyline focuses on her doubts entering into her marriage. She is one of the last people to let those in her life know what is happening to her (regarding sharing her sense of reality with 7 other people around the world). Had the show lasted longer than two seasons, it likely would have explored the consequences of her silence, but as it ended, they did not make her choose between Rajan and Wolfgang. Her contribution to the group tends to be her knowledge of pharmaceuticals/chemistry, her religious devotion to Ganeesha, and occasionally her husband's wealth.


The actress in these clips is Tena Desae. I thought she did a wonderful job playing the 28-year-old Kala, but nothing about her performance made me think of Haleth.
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
I don’t think we need to worry about this too much. I mean...Chris Pratt.

A good actor can act out of type. If there’s enough to suggest they can carry a weighty role, I think the specifics of physical skills and training we can leave to put fictional trainers and stunt coordinators.

The bigger problem I’ve found is a clear lack of South Asian actors in mainstream media.
I admit that I do not watch Bollywood films, so I have no real concept of what actresses in them do. Presumably not a lot of serious fight scenes. But teaching fight choreography to a dancer is not difficult, and I am sure there are plenty of dancers in those! The challenge is not to find an 'action hero' type, but rather someone with a very forceful personality. If that person happens to be bulky and trained with weapons, so much the better.

Sense8 was filmed in different countries, with actors from those countries (in most cases), and has a storyline in India. The show is sci-fi, lots of car chases and gun battles and martial arts. A secret evil government agency, cops, gangs, the mob, prisons, hospitals, all of that. Kala, the main character in India, is one of the least 'action-oriented' members of the cast. Her storyline focuses on her doubts entering into her marriage. She is one of the last people to let those in her life know what is happening to her (regarding sharing her sense of reality with 7 other people around the world). Had the show lasted longer than two seasons, it likely would have explored the consequences of her silence, but as it ended, they did not make her choose between Rajan and Wolfgang. Her contribution to the group tends to be her knowledge of pharmaceuticals/chemistry, her religious devotion to Ganeesha, and occasionally her husband's wealth.


The actress in these clips is Tena Desae. I thought she did a wonderful job playing the 28-year-old Kala, but nothing about her performance made me think of Haleth.
For me, the problem isn't so much teaching fight choreography. My original suggestion for Haleth was Gina Carano, not because she's a skilled fighter and can act like it, but because of her build. There is no chance of he being accused of waif fu. My hope is that we can find an actress of the appropriate ethnic background who have a similar build.
 

Haakon

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For example, Puja Kadian, a female MMA featherweight. The problem is that she has no acting background.

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Yeah I’ve been scouting for MMA fighters, it seems to be a thing in India. I nominated one, Ritika Singh, who has started acting. The right build is something I’ve searched for, but it’s also the right energy. An MMA fighter would certainly have that, as well as the actress MithLuin has nominated, I think.
 
D

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I suppose it depends on what kind of fighter we are after. Have we determined what combat style the Haladin have. Because it could be choreographed so that it isn't something reliant on bulk. Martial artists are rarely beefy. It's possible to be lithe and formidable. And again, actors do crazy things to get into shape for a role. Forget Chris Pratt, Christian Bale is the ultimate example of this (though I wouldn't dare wish his approach on anyone. That level of obsession for a role probably explains his infamous outbursts).
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
I suppose it depends on what kind of fighter we are after. Have we determined what combat style the Haladin have. Because it could be choreographed so that it isn't something reliant on bulk. Martial artists are rarely beefy. It's possible to be lithe and formidable. And again, actors do crazy things to get into shape for a role. Forget Chris Pratt, Christian Bale is the ultimate example of this (though I wouldn't dare wish his approach on anyone. That level of obsession for a role probably explains his infamous outbursts).
Martial artists train for years to study traditions centuries in the making, and are still divided into weight classes for safety. You don't have atomweights or even flyweights fighting heavyweights even in MMA fights.

Haleth doesn't have the benefit of that training or tradition; she is using far more primitive tactics. I'd be incredulous of the chances someone under 130 lbs (male or female) would have on the battlefield under those conditions.
 
D

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Fair enough, good points. I just want to make sure we aren’t ruling out good potential casting on a potentially attainable physical attribute
 

MithLuin

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I do not know the ethnic background of the actress I nominated. She's from New York City, and one site listed her background as 'mixed' without details. So not overly helpful. I know she has played roles that are Hispanic and Native American (as well as an alien on Star Trek). I doubt she's Indian/Pakistani; I nominated her as one of the Haladin based on looks - I guessed that her hair/eye/skin tone was what we had in mind. And I think she does well with 'fierce' roles. As for height...camera angles seemed to take care of that. She was able to crouch down while sharing the screen with tall/large men and not appear tiny.
 

MithLuin

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Also, I think we can find a Haldad who is shorter than 5'10". I am not saying that we have to have Haleth and Haldad be the same height, but the shorter we make Haldad, the closer Haleth can be to his height, standing evenly with him rather than looking up to him.

Anupam Kher plays Kala's father on Sense8 - he's warm and funny and clearly cares deeply for his daughter, all traits that would be good for our Haldad to exude. He's 5'6". At 66 years old, he's maybe a bit older than I pictured Haldad, but not the wrong generation or anything.

 

MithLuin

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I get the impression that actresses in India and Pakistan in many cases seem to be trained to act as far from a brutal fighter as possible.
...so, I have to laugh. The very first trailer I watched on imdb for a made-in-India film seems to go against this stereotype :p It is called "Mona Home Delivery" and has a prostitute as a main character. While I have zero interest in watching this show, I will note that the trailer does feature the actress in question taking a baseball bat to a guy at one point. So...there's that. But I recognize that there is more quality drama being produced in India than...whatever that was. The trailer for 'The Last Hour' looks far more promising, though the very brief clips of the female characters make it difficult to ascertain if any of them would be appropriate.
 
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MithLuin

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Also, I don't think we need resign ourselves to a very short Haleth. 'Tall for a short people' can be a range of heights, and we don't need to stick to the lowest end. I don't think that height should be the primary factor in choosing an actress, but there are no doubt formidable actresses of the appropriate ethnicity who are taller than 5'3". Chances are I haven't seen them in anything, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. I understand why we don't want the most petite person possible in this role....no breaking Haleth like a toothpick!

For instance, I have watched neither Agents of SHIELD nor The Expanse, but Florence Faivre is a French-Thai actress who appears in both. Not having seen the shows, I can't comment on what her characters are like, but I will note that she is at least...not short. She's 5'8". At 38, she's likely a little older than we had in mind for Haleth. Actresses who also have modeling experience tend to be on the taller side, for what its worth.

I will mention that introducing weapons helps to neutralize the advantages of height and weight. It doesn't eliminate them, obviously, but it does reduce them enough to make it 'a fair fight' even when someone physically outclasses someone else. Notably, kendo does not have weight classes. It's perfectly reasonable for someone as short as I am to go up against a 6' tall guy. If I'm smart, I'll use my lower center of mass to my advantage, but yes, obviously I can get knocked flat on my back if I'm not careful. And a young, athletic person can win tournaments, but the highest ranking practitioners are all old men (not the most physically fit, in other words). And naginata was traditionally practiced by women, with the spear meant to compensate for reach. However, as we've discussed here before, fight choreography can look very fake when they have a tiny actor mow through opponents who are significantly larger - a common occurrence when a typically skinny actress is cast in an action role. We are trying to avoid that look in the case of Haleth, and of course have to contend with a film industry that focuses on finding actresses who are as thin as possible. People of a normal, healthy weight are often flat-out told that they do not have the body for film. So, there is that challenge as well.
 
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