How we go about this process

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
What was conveyed to the Execs was that there was a conflict between the timing of the Galadriel storyline and their initial request to have the Kinslaying reveal come before the Dagor Aglareb.

Here on the boards, most people* liked the idea of moving the Kinslaying reveal later to address this conflict.

Clearly, the Hosts preferred to alter the timing of the Galadriel storyline to accommodate the earlier Kinslaying reveal.

Corey Olsen does often have to be reminded of what he'd said earlier, but once he is reminded, he remembers that. He did not forget about the Galadriel storyline, he was simply looking for ways to condense it and have it happen earlier to preserve the mid-season Kinslaying reveal that he wanted.

The significant alteration of Galadriel's storyline is that her conversation with Celeborn at the Mereth Aderthad where she discusses the death of her mother is now being combined with the conversation where she reveals the kinslaying to him. To accommodate this, we will likely find an opportunity/excuse for Celeborn and Galadriel to meet and speak prior to the Mereth Aderthad, either by bringing her back to Mithrim or bringing him back to Doriath. We do need to iron that non-trivial change out, but...we can work with this.

Something had to give - we either had to alter Galadriel's timeline or alter the Kinslaying reveal timeline. I gave them the Gantt chart with the kinslaying reveal at the later slot; they were well aware of our recommended alteration. They just chose not to use it. That happens.

(*with the key exception of Ange1e4e5!)
I was key to Corey’s decision?
 

MithLuin

Well-Known Member
Well, I think he clearly agreed with you and shared your view that a Kinslaying reveal prior to the Dagor Aglareb would create a situation where the battle can be part of the reconciliation story. So, in this instance, you and Corey Olsen were on the same page.
 

Faelivrin

Well-Known Member
Given that the Prof. has spent a ton of time addressing your comments since you began participating, I'm not sure what more you are looking for. As he said today, his disagreement does not amount to a dismissal. He has addressed your arguments in detail on quite a number of occasions.
I understand why it looks like that when you can't see my comments on the chat box. I'd be satisfied ... if I was an attention-hog. But the frustration I'm having isn't about being ignored, as such. Corey's responses are usually only tangentially related to my concerns, and totally unhelpful. Perhaps he misunderstands what my concerns are. And I can't usually condense complex ideas into a tiny tweet on the fly while typing so fast I get typos everywhere.

I don't think that my concerns are successfully being communicated and understood. I know MithLuin is doing her best to translate, of course, and again I am grateful for that.

My other frustration is that I ... maybe I'm not cut out to be a writer because I find it so difficult to work my butt off writing something only to have most of it torn down and be told I have to rewrite it almost from scratch.
 

MithLuin

Well-Known Member
I understand the frustration (and I am sure Nick does too). Sometimes, we would like more time and more opportunities to go back and forth and hash things out. What we each have to do is to decide what to do with the time available and how to communicate what we think is important.

Not everyone has the same level of flexibility. One or two times a season, there may be a decision that is made that is upsetting or disappointing or very dissatisfying. It is very natural to feel annoyed that these decisions get made. I can understand someone becoming bitter or deciding that this project is just not for them if it happens constantly rather than occasionally. Like in anything, the choices we make concern our own actions. We cannot make others behave differently.

So, for me personally, I approach the Execs' decisions in a 'Can I work with this?' mindset. Usually, I can find a way to work with what they are asking for and still address concerns that were raised. Sometimes, the work-around I had in mind gets shot down. I am not saying others can have this approach. It is likely a combination of my own personality, attitude, and concept of how the project works.

For instance, I understand that they want Galadriel to share the story of the Kinslaying with Celeborn in Episode 5 for timing purposes. They are not requiring us to have Galadriel learn Celeborn's name and tell him in the same scene. Therefore, it will be up to us to put the initial meeting /getting to know you stuff earlier, and show a breakthrough in their relationship during Episode 5. We can write something that makes sense. We just have to rethink the pacing.

I see the problems caused by the change, but I don't find them insurmountable. I can work with it.
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
To add to Marie's point, I maintain that some of our strongest work has come from trying to make coherent stories out of things I considered to be bad decision-making. In forcing us to think outside the box, the Hosts have at time inadvertently pushed us into thinking through our stories more deeply, which results in better material than when what we think is natural just spills out.

However, as Marie says, this may be a personality issue. In addition to being a story-teller, I tend to also be a problem-solver. Despite what many believe, TV and film are more of a craft than an art. More like baking than cake-decorating, if you follow. There are ingredients that must work together in the right proportions to get the desired textures and flavors.

That can feel constricting to some, but to others, it is a challenge. When something upsets the delicate balance of my batter, what do I need to do to regain the equilibrium?

I suppose another part of this is that I don't take ownership or responsibility for the entire output of the project, but only my small part in it and that over which I have control. I don't consider the entire project a failure because my own vision was not fulfilled. It may, on occasion, be worse than it would have been had I full creative control, and many cases it might be better.

I have needed to accept that this show will not always be what I consider optimal. Sometimes there will be episodes, plot elements, or whole seasons I think will fall flat. I can even point to some examples if I were so inclined. That doesn't mean it is ruined entirely, or even that those items are ruined.


This project holds two main points of value to me. One is that I get to interact with and think through the source material in a way that I otherwise would not. The amount I have learned through this project has been enormous. And not only about the source material. Plot structure, dramatic timing, filmmaking, history, meteorology, geology, engineering, broadcasting, recording, editing, all are subjects I have had to learn about through my participation in this endeavor.

The second point of value comes in proving that this could be done. More than that, that this show would be marketable to a general audience. Sometimes, there are things which I don't think will work. My first task is to find a way to put a square peg into a round hole, so to speak. To figure out a compelling way to tell the story of Féanor's exile without showing what the Valar are doing behind the scenes, to give one example.

Sometimes, this effort fails, and the resulting work is less than satisfying. We still have 20+ seasons to get through. There is a good chance that my daughter will be a married adult by the time this project ends. We can learn from our mistakes and apply those lessons to future seasons.

The question is: is this something you want to do for the next 20 years?
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
My experience from creative work is that, more often than not, being given restrictions or instructions that you didn’t ask for or even like makes you react in ways that makes you create something you are more fascinated by than the stuff you’d have created otherwise. The force of others in a creative process makes 1+1=3, and 1+1+1=5. I often feel disappointed with decisions in Silmfilm, but most of the time, someone has had a better idea than I, and anyway the published Silmarillion is still there, so there’s no real harm done.
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
Nah. There are thousands of actors in the world. And if this were a real show, the Casting Director would likely be hiring mostly unknown actors for almost all of the roles rather than the big names we have been choosing. So even if we did run out of major Hollywood or TV actors, the project would march on regardless.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
What will they be covering next session, so we don't go off-topic? It would help with making a post to the message board.
 
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