Mate of Orcrist

Gordy N. Knott

New Member
One word Corey didn’t dwell on is “mate.” In what way are they mates? They were both of Gondolin, yes. They were both found together in the troll horde. And both were shown to and discussed with Elrond. But in The Hobbit there’s there’s no indication they both belonged to the king of Gondolin. Is this perhaps a change of thinking? Could they both have been the king’s? If so why would he need two swords? Could have had one of a shorter variety that might have been more appropriate for Thorin as a main weapon? Longer perhaps than Bilbo’s Sting? I guess I’m wondering if this word mate helps us picture the two swords in relation to each other.
 
In the Hobbit the Goblins of the Misty Mountains named the the swords Beater and Biter. I don't remember any other specific passage that connects the two swords, but at the very least I think it is clear that Tolkien has them as connected to each other in more ways than being found in the troll hoard and coming from Gondolin. I believe that when Elrond is examining the swords, only Glamdring is remarked to be the kings sword, which seems to mean that they are not mates in that sense.
 
Perhaps they were 'mates' only because they lived together for a long time in the Troll horde?

How the heck did they get there?

Although, as Jon Markloff suggests, the Goblins seem to associate them as 'Beater' and 'Biter'. Why? Did they make a tremendous impression on orcs during the battle at the downfall of Gondolin? If so, how was that memory passed down through the millennia to the Goblins of the Misty Mountains? How did they recognize the two swords?
 
Although, as Jon Markloff suggests, the Goblins seem to associate them as 'Beater' and 'Biter'. Why? Did they make a tremendous impression on orcs during the battle at the downfall of Gondolin? If so, how was that memory passed down through the millennia to the Goblins of the Misty Mountains? How did they recognize the two swords?

That's clear - they remembered them ;)
 
How did they recognize the two swords?
I think this may be a piece of the answer. Are they matched in some way that makes them 1) similar in some fashion to forge a connection between them and 2) Distinctive enough that even the group of Goblins that presumably have not seen them themselves would instantly recognize them. If thats true it would make sense that they would be considered mates.
 
Did they make a tremendous impression on orcs during the battle at the downfall of Gondolin? If so, how was that memory passed down through the millennia to the Goblins of the Misty Mountains?
I take this as evidence (albeit weak evidence) that Orcs are immortal, like Elves. Other, more elaborate, explanations can be imagined, but the simplest is that some of the Orcs recognized the swords because they had seen them before, during the First Age.

Of course, that idea presents many problems of its own, and Tolkien's conception of this - like so many other things - may have changed over time.
 
I think this may be a piece of the answer. Are they matched in some way that makes them 1) similar in some fashion to forge a connection between them and 2) Distinctive enough that even the group of Goblins that presumably have not seen them themselves would instantly recognize them. If thats true it would make sense that they would be considered mates.
That makes good sense. Thanks!
 
I take this as evidence (albeit weak evidence) that Orcs are immortal, like Elves. Other, more elaborate, explanations can be imagined, but the simplest is that some of the Orcs recognized the swords because they had seen them before, during the First Age.

Of course, that idea presents many problems of its own, and Tolkien's conception of this - like so many other things - may have changed over time.
I had never considered that orcs might be immortal. I assumed they lost that when they were ruined. Interesting!
 
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