Melkor?

[Phillip Menzies]

Alas, I am completely stumped when it comes to Melkor and his theme. It could be like the whole Ring/Mordor theme that Sauron has in the movies, but the ring doesn't equate to Melkor. His main character trait is pride. How does proud music sound? Does anyone have any ideas or examples?

 

[Haakon]

I'm thinking something that begins really romantic in a Wagnerian way - or like baroque court music, beautiful but bombastic, which shifts into a dicotome combination of high and low notes and dramatic drums. Perhaps a melody remains from the first part, but drastically simplified. I'm also thinking of the Zimmer Inception horn, but that has been over used.

 

[Phillip Menzies]

Do you have a specific example that I could listen to? I am not that familiar with Baroque or Wagner for that matter.

 

[Haakon]

Wagner example:

Or:

Baroque:

 

[Haakon]

I didn't listen to all of the music in the last clip, it's mostly the first that sounded the way I wanted. The rest is mostly just beautiful in a way that won't fit Melkor.

 

[MithLuin]

Just a reminder that Prof. Olsen requested 'evil French horns' for Melkor. That may or may not have been a serious request, but, hey, if you can work it in.....

Here is Outkast's 'Hey Ya' with French Horn.....

And 'Uptown Funk':

Okay, fine, fine - Mozart Horn Concertos:

Gabriel's Oboe from 'The Mission' soundtrack:

Ave Maria on French Horn (with Russian horns):

 

[MithLuin]

To be completely honest, I will be performing in a joke version of the Ainulindalë in a few weeks. We're going to have tin flutes, a mandolin and drum....and Melkor will interrupt with kazoo.

So, if you can work in a vuvuzela, I think you will have nailed Melkor's personality

I mean...they sound like angry bees....what is better at interrupting than that?

My apologies for having no useful contributions here. All I know about making music sound evil is to put it in a minor key. But I'd want something bombastic for Melkor.....

 

[Haakon]

Well the problem is that we don't want his musical theme to be a spoiler. It can't be evil from the beginning (except...in.. Ainulindalë...)

 

[MithLuin]

So, I asked a musically talented friend who is as familiar with Silmarillion as I am about this, and here was one of her suggestions for 'Baroque Melkor Music':

The opening of 'A Clockwork Orange', using "Music for the Funeral of Queen Mary - March" by Henry Purcell 1659-1695 (as this is the actual opening of the film, there is voiceover about 2 min into this)

And for another Stanley Kubrick film score, Handel's Sarabande:

She also suggested this for Mairon/Sauron:

 

[MithLuin]

For Baroque:

Dal mio permesso amato from Claudio Monteverdi's L'Orfeo.

Bach's Brandenburg Concertos:

For not-Baroque-but-still-helpful-for-Melkor:

Something by Grieg

(Probably not 'In the Hall of the Mountain King', but...)

or Carl Orff:

(Again, obviously not 'O Fortuna' but....)
*note that there is a brass section - possibly French horns?

 

[MithLuin]

His main character trait is pride. How does proud music sound? Does anyone have any ideas or examples?

Like this!

I mean, this is too happy, but it is certainly ridiculously pleased with itself.

For something more dramatic, the-world-hates-me, try:

For music that sounds like it should accompany an army of elephants, try Dvorak's 'From the New World':

 

[MithLuin]

Also, there is this, from the guy who wrote 'Night on Bald Mountain' (well, the original of that).

Baba Yaga by Modest Mussorgsky

 

[Haakon]

I really like Dvorak, Mussorgsky and Händel's Sarabande. Together they capture much of what I would like to hear in Melkor's theme.

 

[Haakon]

I'll try to find a link to Romeo and Juliet by Prokofiev. The march of the Capulets is a really great piece which I think is a good model for Melkor's theme.

For Sauron, or perhaps for Mairon, I listened to a flute version of a Romanian dance (sz 56) which was really good. I don't know if I can find a good link though (but I'll try).
Otherwise I'll get Stravinsky's The Rite of Spring.

 

[Haakon]

Sorry the Prokofiev from Romeo and Juliet is called Dance of the Knights. Anyway:

Rite of Spring (Mairon):

(It has this calm before the storm feeling - until about four minutes into it)

 

[MithLuin]

My first thought on 'The Rite of Spring' was....oh no, don't use anything that was used in Fantasia! But that piece is 35 minutes long, and listening to it, somewhere around the 16:20-20 min mark sounded like a bit from the Star Wars soundtrack (on Tatooine). So....I think we are safe to use pieces of it as inspiration for an original score. I completely agree with you that it has this air of anticipation to it, and much of it is ominous.

Dance of the Knights is very jarring, so it's got that going for it. Melkor doesn't play nicely with others....

Many classical pieces have these slow quiet parts that build up to something really bombastic, so I think Melkor's 'theme' could have a variety of moods to choose from, with only some of it being the 'evil overlord cackling from on high' levels of drama.

I feel that Danny Elfman did a good job with the 'ominous background building to frightening crescendos' in his soundtrack for Red Dragon. Much of the soundtrack is quiet, but it doesn't take much for it to dominate the scene. And, yes, it's modern serial killer stuff, not mythic wars, but still....good stuff there.

 

[Haakon]

This is also interesting, could work for Melkor or Sauron or both of them, some kind of general "falling to evil" theme:

(Going out into the Void?)

 

[MithLuin]

This is also interesting, could work for Melkor or Sauron or both of them, some kind of general "falling to evil" theme:

(Going out into the Void?)

Okay, that is truly disturbing (and thus perfect)!

I am looking for more examples of Purcell.....

King Arthur has some horns and some parts for deep voices, but is not really appropriate here.

'Funeral for Queen Mary' is better:

 

[MithLuin]

Mussorgsky is promising in general:

 

[Haakon]

By the way - will any of these ideas reach the execs? Or is that only if we make our own music?