Bruce N H
Active Member
Hi all,
Sorry for the flood of posts. I was behind and finally read the last few chapters and listened to the rest of the last class. So I have thoughts.
In an earlier class we talked about Loonie lifespan. I just wanted to gather up some of the data in one place. The data I see comes from the Davis family history, from conversation with Terran reporters in chapters 17 and 18, and from a little bit of information at the very end of the book.
The main action of the book is in 2076. Heinlein was writing this a few years before the first moon landing in 1969. From his perspective we could imagine the moon colony being founded in the 1970's or 1980's. This is consistent with Mannie telling reporters that the first children born in the moon were less than a century old. Mannie tells Wyoh in chapter 3 that the Davis marriage is "nearly a hundred years old" and goes back to the "first transportees". He later tells Terran reporters he is from one of the "oldest line marriages in Lunaa--and, in my prejudiced opinion, best."
At the start of the action, Mannie tells Wyoh that the Davis family has had 21 links, 9 of which are still alive at this point.* So twelve spouses died. We're told that Black Jack Davis died 50 years ago. Now, most of those might have been transportees, and some may have died prematurely (the Moon, after all, is a harsh mistress), so I don't know if that gives any data on lifespan. We don't really know Mum's age, but Mannie is at a minimum 37 (opted at 14, tells reporters he's been married "more than" 22 years), and she as much as raised him. So she's probably at least 20 years older than him. Mannie tells reporters that in a line marriage a young wife probably wouldn't become senior wife until they were around 80, so Mum could be as much as 40 years older than Mannie (also, there's no indication that she's become "senior" just recently). Grandpaw is so old that his "first night" with a young wife is more ceremonial than lustful. That would fit with him being in his 80 or more. Then at the end of the book, when Mannie is "not even a hundred yet" we get a note that Mum is still around (though she "long ago opted out of family management" - Anna is the new "Mum"). So is she in her 130s?
The biggest information dump on this comes in chapter 17:
"Pensions. You can buy a pension. Most people don't; most families are large and old people, say a hundred and up, either fiddle along at something they like, or sit and watch video. Or sleep. They sleep a lot, after say a hundred and twenty."
"Sir, excuse me. Do people really live as long on the Moon as they say?"
I looked surprised but wasn't; this was a "simulated question" for which an answer had been taped.
"Nobody knows how long a person will live in Luna; we haven't been there long enough. Our oldest citizens were born Earthside, it's no test. So far, no one born in Luna died of old age, but that's still no test; they haven't had time to grow old yet, less than a century. "
Finally, as already mentioned, Mannie is "not even a hundred yet" at the end of the book, though saying it that way suggests he's getting close to that mark, and he feels young enough to start a new adventure exploring the asteroids.
So, summing up, there are two groups:
1. Transportees - these are known to live much longer in Luna. Mannie tells a reported she could easily add 20 years to her life by moving there. Transportees are known to die of old age, including presumably various Davis family spouses.
2. Native Loonies - these can live for undetermined times, but at a minimum 100 years.
People do slow down - by Grandpaw's age he can hardly get in a p-suit by himself, by 100 people are retired and mostly sit around watching TV, by 120 they're largely sleeping (at the end of the story Mum "dreams by video". Of course, this could just apply to transportees, as they are the only ones who would be 120 at the time Mannie visits Terra.
Active life is much longer than on Terra. Even transportees seem to work until around 100. No sign of when native borns slow down.
Bruce
*BTW, I'm confused on this point. When Greg proposes Wyoming Knott at the Davis family talk-talk, Mum calls roll. There are eleven names. I know a little time has passed since that first conspiracy meeting back in the early chapters, but did I miss it and there were two weddings in the meantime? Obviously there will be at least two more by the end of the book. Wyoh in the main story, and Stu mentioned almost in passing near the end. Probably others as well. I tried to map out the Davis family tree, but there's not enough information. We know it goes Grandpaw, then Mum, then Greg, then I think Anna, then Mannie. I don't know if we know enough about the order after that - Sidris, Lenore, and Ludamilla are the other wives at the time of the talk-talk where they propose Wyoh - Hans, Frank and Ali are the other husbands. We know they alternate genders but made an exception for Ludamilla.
Sorry for the flood of posts. I was behind and finally read the last few chapters and listened to the rest of the last class. So I have thoughts.
In an earlier class we talked about Loonie lifespan. I just wanted to gather up some of the data in one place. The data I see comes from the Davis family history, from conversation with Terran reporters in chapters 17 and 18, and from a little bit of information at the very end of the book.
The main action of the book is in 2076. Heinlein was writing this a few years before the first moon landing in 1969. From his perspective we could imagine the moon colony being founded in the 1970's or 1980's. This is consistent with Mannie telling reporters that the first children born in the moon were less than a century old. Mannie tells Wyoh in chapter 3 that the Davis marriage is "nearly a hundred years old" and goes back to the "first transportees". He later tells Terran reporters he is from one of the "oldest line marriages in Lunaa--and, in my prejudiced opinion, best."
At the start of the action, Mannie tells Wyoh that the Davis family has had 21 links, 9 of which are still alive at this point.* So twelve spouses died. We're told that Black Jack Davis died 50 years ago. Now, most of those might have been transportees, and some may have died prematurely (the Moon, after all, is a harsh mistress), so I don't know if that gives any data on lifespan. We don't really know Mum's age, but Mannie is at a minimum 37 (opted at 14, tells reporters he's been married "more than" 22 years), and she as much as raised him. So she's probably at least 20 years older than him. Mannie tells reporters that in a line marriage a young wife probably wouldn't become senior wife until they were around 80, so Mum could be as much as 40 years older than Mannie (also, there's no indication that she's become "senior" just recently). Grandpaw is so old that his "first night" with a young wife is more ceremonial than lustful. That would fit with him being in his 80 or more. Then at the end of the book, when Mannie is "not even a hundred yet" we get a note that Mum is still around (though she "long ago opted out of family management" - Anna is the new "Mum"). So is she in her 130s?
The biggest information dump on this comes in chapter 17:
"Pensions. You can buy a pension. Most people don't; most families are large and old people, say a hundred and up, either fiddle along at something they like, or sit and watch video. Or sleep. They sleep a lot, after say a hundred and twenty."
"Sir, excuse me. Do people really live as long on the Moon as they say?"
I looked surprised but wasn't; this was a "simulated question" for which an answer had been taped.
"Nobody knows how long a person will live in Luna; we haven't been there long enough. Our oldest citizens were born Earthside, it's no test. So far, no one born in Luna died of old age, but that's still no test; they haven't had time to grow old yet, less than a century. "
Finally, as already mentioned, Mannie is "not even a hundred yet" at the end of the book, though saying it that way suggests he's getting close to that mark, and he feels young enough to start a new adventure exploring the asteroids.
So, summing up, there are two groups:
1. Transportees - these are known to live much longer in Luna. Mannie tells a reported she could easily add 20 years to her life by moving there. Transportees are known to die of old age, including presumably various Davis family spouses.
2. Native Loonies - these can live for undetermined times, but at a minimum 100 years.
People do slow down - by Grandpaw's age he can hardly get in a p-suit by himself, by 100 people are retired and mostly sit around watching TV, by 120 they're largely sleeping (at the end of the story Mum "dreams by video". Of course, this could just apply to transportees, as they are the only ones who would be 120 at the time Mannie visits Terra.
Active life is much longer than on Terra. Even transportees seem to work until around 100. No sign of when native borns slow down.
Bruce
*BTW, I'm confused on this point. When Greg proposes Wyoming Knott at the Davis family talk-talk, Mum calls roll. There are eleven names. I know a little time has passed since that first conspiracy meeting back in the early chapters, but did I miss it and there were two weddings in the meantime? Obviously there will be at least two more by the end of the book. Wyoh in the main story, and Stu mentioned almost in passing near the end. Probably others as well. I tried to map out the Davis family tree, but there's not enough information. We know it goes Grandpaw, then Mum, then Greg, then I think Anna, then Mannie. I don't know if we know enough about the order after that - Sidris, Lenore, and Ludamilla are the other wives at the time of the talk-talk where they propose Wyoh - Hans, Frank and Ali are the other husbands. We know they alternate genders but made an exception for Ludamilla.