Narsil

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
Narsil is forged in Episode 10, and, to tie it into the frame story, it will have an inscription in Quenya on the blade. Does anyone have any suggestions for what this inscription should say? Suggestions do not have to be in Quenya.

Some other elements of Narsil's design are a secret Khuzdul inscription on the tang, bits of Eol's black metal speckled throughout the blade, and a Feanorian jewel as the pommel. Are there any other suggestions for the design of Narsil?
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Narsil is forged in Episode 10, and, to tie it into the frame story, it will have an inscription in Quenya on the blade. Does anyone have any suggestions for what this inscription should say? Suggestions do not have to be in Quenya.

Some other elements of Narsil's design are a secret Khuzdul inscription on the tang, bits of Eol's black metal speckled throughout the blade, and a Feanorian jewel as the pommel. Are there any other suggestions for the design of Narsil?
Don’t know enough of Khuzdul to be of much use. The Hosts think it should be one-handed and wielded with a shield.

The name Narsil means “red and white flame” in Quenya. What would that signify for Aegnor, who receives Narsil?
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
Don’t know enough of Khuzdul to be of much use. The Hosts think it should be one-handed and wielded with a shield.

The name Narsil means “red and white flame” in Quenya. What would that signify for Aegnor, who receives Narsil?
Just to clarify for the question that nobody has yet asked, we are not going to have Aragorn traipsing through Eriador with a shield. A sword is a plenty suitable sidearm for adventuring. At the Black Gate, however, I'd love to see Aragorn properly equipped for battle.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Just to clarify for the question that nobody has yet asked, we are not going to have Aragorn traipsing through Eriador with a shield. A sword is a plenty suitable sidearm for adventuring. At the Black Gate, however, I'd love to see Aragorn properly equipped for battle.
True. Traipsing with a shield isn’t impossible (Boromir carried a shield) but it doesn’t seem like Aragorn’s style in the beginning, when he’s more of a Ranger. I’m not even sure he had a sword until Rivendell, since he used two torches against the Nazgul and showed that his sword was broken at the Council of Elrond.
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
True. Traipsing with a shield isn’t impossible (Boromir carried a shield) but it doesn’t seem like Aragorn’s style in the beginning, when he’s more of a Ranger.
It isn't just that. Tolkien specifically describes the loadout of each member of the fellowship, including Boromir's shield and Gimli's armor. Aragorn is carrying only Andúril.
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
The Silmarillion says that, when Elendil was wielding it against Sauron, Narsil "shone with the light of the sun and of the moon." I'm not sure whether this means it reflected the light really well or if it actually glowed. Should Narsil be a glowing sword? Should it glow all the time or just when it is used in battle?
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
The Silmarillion says that, when Elendil was wielding it against Sauron, Narsil "shone with the light of the sun and of the moon." I'm not sure whether this means it reflected the light really well or if it actually glowed. Should Narsil be a glowing sword? Should it glow all the time or just when it is used in battle?
If we have it glow, it shouldn’t be blue (the Gondolin swords have a monopoly on that).
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
If we have it glow, it shouldn’t be blue (the Gondolin swords have a monopoly on that).
If it shines with the light of the sun and moon, it would probably glow gold and silver. How should this look? Blended light like the Silmarils? One side gold and one silver?

When it is reforged as Anduril, it has a device that includes a sun and moon. Should Narsil have a sun and moon on it too?
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
If it shines with the light of the sun and moon, it would probably glow gold and silver. How should this look? Blended light like the Silmarils? One side gold and one silver?

When it is reforged as Anduril, it has a device that includes a sun and moon. Should Narsil have a sun and moon on it too?
Would it reflect (as in appear similar to) the sun on a particular time of day?

We should also look at its history as to how it winds up in the hands of the Faithful on Numenor. It's going to be forged for Aegnor, and Aegnor will be slain in the Dagor Bragollach. Where shall it go from there? It can't stay there since Dorthonion will be abandoned before F.A. 460, the Easterlings would likely seize any weapons the House of Hador has, and the people of Haleth will batter themselves out of the history books after the wanderings of Hurin.
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
Would it reflect (as in appear similar to) the sun on a particular time of day?

We should also look at its history as to how it winds up in the hands of the Faithful on Numenor. It's going to be forged for Aegnor, and Aegnor will be slain in the Dagor Bragollach. Where shall it go from there? It can't stay there since Dorthonion will be abandoned before F.A. 460, the Easterlings would likely seize any weapons the House of Hador has, and the people of Haleth will batter themselves out of the history books after the wanderings of Hurin.
I'm pretty sure there was an episode much earlier this season in which who Narsil would get passed around to was discussed. I don't remember exactly what was decided, but I will try to find that episode and relisten to it.

I think one of the possibilities discussed was for it to end up as Beren's sword. This could happen if Aegnor gave his sword directly to Beren or Barahir, although I don't know why he would do that, and I don't think either of them would be the type to loot Aegnor's corpse. It might be cool to have Beren take it from Tol-in-Gaurhoth, which could happen if Aegnor and Angrod die fighting on the western side of Dorthonion, near Minas Tirith, and the sword is taken to Orodreth, who loses it when he has to flee to Nargothrond. Beren and Luthien could then find the sword after Sauron is defeated, and Beren could wield it until he dies the first time. When Beren and Luthien leave Doriath, Beren could either leave his sword in Doriath when he and Luthien leave, or he could pass it on to Dior. At the Second Kinslaying, Maedhros could recognize the sword and take it back then eventually give it to Elros.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure there was an episode much earlier this season in which who Narsil would get passed around to was discussed. I don't remember exactly what was decided, but I will try to find that episode and relisten to it.

I think one of the possibilities discussed was for it to end up as Beren's sword. This could happen if Aegnor gave his sword directly to Beren or Barahir, although I don't know why he would do that, and I don't think either of them would be the type to loot Aegnor's corpse. It might be cool to have Beren take it from Tol-in-Gaurhoth, which could happen if Aegnor and Angrod die fighting on the western side of Dorthonion, near Minas Tirith, and the sword is taken to Orodreth, who loses it when he has to flee to Nargothrond. Beren and Luthien could then find the sword after Sauron is defeated, and Beren could wield it until he dies the first time. When Beren and Luthien leave Doriath, Beren could either leave his sword in Doriath when he and Luthien leave, or he could pass it on to Dior. At the Second Kinslaying, Maedhros could recognize the sword and take it back then eventually give it to Elros.
Except that Beren already has his own sword, named Dagmor.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
How about this: After Orodreth loses Narsil at Minas Tirith, it's found and Beren and Luthien send the sword to Doriath then they take it with them to Ossiriand, where it sits until Dior comes to Doriath and it is taken with the refugees of Doriath after the Second Kinslaying?
 

amysrevenge

Well-Known Member
I recall the consensus last time was that the sword would pass fairly early into the hands of Men. Scooped up from the battlefield (by a woman? trying to remember, don't have time to search) when Aegnor is slain. I remember that I really liked the scenario.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
I recall the consensus last time was that the sword would pass fairly early into the hands of Men. Scooped up from the battlefield (by a woman? trying to remember, don't have time to search) when Aegnor is slain. I remember that I really liked the scenario.
I'm not particularly sure of the logic of doing that, since Dor-Lomin is taken by the Easterlings after the Nirnaeth and they would have destroyed Narsil, and with Brethil, they don't seem like the type to have a sword like Narsil, and wiped themselves out of the story by the Second Kinslaying. Both of those appear to be dead ends.
 
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amysrevenge

Well-Known Member
It is trivially easy to save one sword from sacking invaders. I can think of any number of believable circumstances: it's well hidden, the bearer is out in the woods and avoids the sacking, the invaders temporarily seize the weapon and one of them keeps it and during a minor revolt/escape it gets taken back - those three were as fast as I could type them. You could come up with ten more in half an hour of brainstorming. The Dragon Helm is saved from the Easterlings by one of these.
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
It reminds me of the story of Dolley Madison's rather heroic preservation of the Declaration of Independence and other important documents when the British sacked the US capitol. If she could flee the city with a (I think) life-size portrait of George Washington, I imagine someone could smuggle out something as comparatively small as a sword.
 

MithLuin

Well-Known Member
There were two suggestions I recall for what happens to Narsil.

One was that someone would bring it to Andreth after Aegnor's death in battle. This would give us a chance to show her death scene if she was alive before the battle (it was also suggested that Aegnor would already know she was dead before the battle, so we shall see). Regardless, the sword would then pass to Andreth's heirs. She has plenty of nieces and nephews, though no descendants, obviously.

The other idea was that Emeldir, in leading the survivors away from Dorthonion, would come across Narsil on the battlefield and pick it up, using it to defend herself and her people on their journey. It would then be passed down in that group.

Certainly a question for Season 5!
 

MithLuin

Well-Known Member
As for hiding swords from occupying invaders....I think the history of Scotland has some things to say about that.

"The Act of Proscription (1746) aimed to destroy the military power of the clans by banning traditional Highland dress, possession of arms and bagpipes – which were deemed to be an ‘instrument of war’." {source}

And, true, there wasn't an uprising after Culloden, and one could argue that in three decades the Scottish clans were broken as a political or military force to be reckoned with. So, it would appear that that was successful.

Except...

The British tried the same thing in 1716, in response to a Jacobite uprising, with the Disarming Act. And again in 1725, when that proved ineffective. And still Culloden happened in 1745, with the army of Bonnie Prince Charlie being 5000 strong and wielding weapons of similar caliber to those of the British Army.

So, yes, an occupying force can ban weapons, and confiscate weapons, and make every effort to disarm a people. But even when it is carried out 'successfully', it is far from 100% effective.

Thus, even if an Easterling does get their hands on Narsil...there is nothing to say that he'll keep it. Nor does the fact of the Easterling occupation of Hithlum mean that the Atani will perforce lose ownership of Narsil, if Narsil is there.
 
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Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
As for hiding swords from occupying invaders....I think the history of Scotland has some things to say about that.

"The Act of Proscription (1746) aimed to destroy the military power of the clans by banning traditional Highland dress, possession of arms and bagpipes – which were deemed to be an ‘instrument of war’." {source}

And, true, there wasn't an uprising after Culloden, and one could argue that in three decades the Scottish clans were broken as a political or military force to be reckoned with. So, it would appear that that was successful.

Except...

The British tried the same thing in 1716, in response to a Jacobite uprising, with the Disarming Act. And again in 1725, when that proved ineffective. And still Culloden happened in 1745, with the army of Bonnie Prince Charlie being 5000 strong and wielding weapons of similar caliber to those of the British Army.

So, yes, an occupying force can ban weapons, and confiscate weapons, and make every effort to disarm a people. But even when it is carried out 'successfully', it is far from 100% effective.

Thus, even if an Easterling does get their hands on Narsil...there is nothing to say that he'll keep it. Nor does the fact of the Easterling occupation of Hithlum mean that the Atani will perforce lose ownership of Narsil, if Narsil is there.
I've always been reminded of the Act of Proscription when we've discussed Thingol's Ban.
 

MithLuin

Well-Known Member
Yeah, banning Highland dress (kilts) and bagpipes was very much banning culture.

It wasn't so far as schools to 're-educate' a population's children, but....yes, I see Thingol's Ban in that real-life example.
 
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