Noldorin princes and their crafts

[Faelivrin]

So Feanor is dead and gone from the world, but he still is alive and well in one place - between Galadriel's ears.

She's a crafter, prominent among a family of crafters. So, what do we know of what she has crafted? Not minor stuff like rope or bread or cloth, but real Noldo-craft?

Mirror - a poor-man's palantir, and Phial - a poor-man's silmaril. Both are great, but both are also kind of sad pale imitations of Feanor-craft.

Millennia later, she's just copying Feanor. Or, now that I think of it, anywhere she's not copying Feanor, she's copying Melian.
Just who is Galadriel anyway, nameless and alone?

This prompted me to finally make this thread. Maybe it isn't important enough to talk about, but what the heck.


What crafts, arts, and hobbies did the princes and princesses of the Noldor (and their Noldorin spouses) practice? Tolkien identified only a few (italic). This may not matter, but it could become the inspiration for little touches in scenery, script, and/or costuming sometimes.

Not including singing, which probably all Elves do. Assuming fletching as a side-craft for those who hunt.

Dead people, and people left behind in Valinor, crossed out.


Finwë: architecture
Míriel: embroidery, tapestry-weaving; perhaps knitting/purling/crocheting/Elvish equivalent of those
Fëanor: linguistics, tengwar, metalwork, jewelsmithing, Fëanorian lamps, Palantiri, Silmarils, armor, weapons, architecture, farm tools; probably stonework and woodwork too
Nerdanel: abstract sculpture, mind-blowingly realistic figural sculpture, metalwork
Findis: ???
Fingolfin: ???
Anairë: ???
Írimë: glassblowing
Finarfin: ???

Maedhros: hunting, ???; crafts might not matter, he probably had to give up on whatever it was after he lost his hand
Maglor: hunting, playing musical instruments, composing, poetry; probably also makes instruments
Celegorm: hunting, ???; maybe woodworking
Curufin: hunting, linguistics; is "the chief inheritor of his father's skills" so I'd expect armor, weapons, jewelry, stonework, etc.
Caranthir: ???
Amros: ??? hunting?
Amrod: ??? hunting?
Fingon: ???; plays the harp, hunting/falconry
Turgon: metalwork, the gold and silver images of the Two Trees in Gondolin; Glamdring?
Aredhel: hunting, ???; maybe weapon-smithing
Eöl: metalwork, weapons, armor, creepy prison-maze enchantments
Finrod: hunting, "light" stone-carving and stone detail work, carves the pillars of Nargothrond; plays the harp; painting landscapes? maybe portraits?
Angrod: ??? has very strong hands
Eldalótë: ???
Aegnor: ???
Galadriel: weaving, lembas, landscaping/gardening, the Mirror, the Phial

Celebrimbor: jewelsmithing, Rings of Power; probably linguistics, metalwork, stonework, woodwork, the bridge of Nargothrond; (one story attributes the Elessar to him though I think that highly unlikely)
Idril: healing? dancing? playing music?
Maeglin: mining, metalwork; stonework?
Orodreth: ???
Finduilas: ???
Gil-galad: ???
Celebrían: ??? presumably lembas
Earendil: shipbuilding, all things mariner, healing (but also a warrior)
Elrond: healing, playing music
Elros: ???; healing? (like Elrond, and because the Dunedain have a tradition that the King is a healer even if he's also a warrior)
Elladan: ???
Elrohir: ???
Arwen: weaving, embroidery; presumably lembas


There are a lot of these people! Most total blanks in the hobby department. Not all of them focused on crafts, of course, but I feel like all of them must have been good at/fond of doing something by the time they were hundreds or thousands of years old. The sons of Feanor (except Celegorm) often visited Aule's house and probably all were skilled craftsmen.

So, suggestions? Didn't somebody already come up with something for Irime?

 

[Marielle]

We made Irime as glassblower... I don't recall any firm decisions for the others.

I do this we should play with a wide range of crafts, from various cultures, and consider what effect we want each character's craft to have. Do we want their craft to emphasize a trait of theirs, or to offer a contrast or glimpse of another side of them? Making the unlikable Caranthir a swordsman, perhaps specializing in daggers, would play up his rough, suspicious nature, but making him, for example, a master of delicate porcelain figurines -- aligning his crafting more with his mother, amongst other things -- would offer a more "humanizing" interpretation of him.

 

[Faelivrin]

I think the best use would be to add depth by showing another side to each character. But it can harmonize with what we already know -- like your post elsewhere about Galadriel as a gardener.

I wasn't thinking about fighting as a craft, though -- that isn't something they did as a hobby before their Rebellion.
EDIT: OK apparently you guys made tourneys a Noldorin sport pre-Rebellion.


Is Arakáno in this adaptation? I haven't seen any word one way or the other.

EDIT: Arakáno will not be existing.

 

[MithLuin]

We will likely decide about whether or not Argon exists when we get to the battle where he's supposed to die. I realize that's a bit backwards, but if he's in, we'll definitely give him something to do on the Helcaraxë, at the very least.


Noldor crafts that were explicitly included in Season 2:

Noldor in general - jewel making

Finwë does architecture - he builds Tirion (with the Vanyar, but mostly a Noldor endeavor), and more-or-less plans Alqualondë (it's a joint effort with the Teleri, but...), and is very much in charge of the big picture plan for Formenos (Fëanor gets bogged down in minutia, like having a really good gate). I forget what we have Finwë make when he meets Aulë, but it's a gift for Míriel.

Míriel makes tapestries (in Mandos, too, I think) and embroidered clothing, maybe? There were some interesting costume choices with her, and I forget if we were showing her working on baby's wardrobe, etc.

Fëanor - Tengwar, farm tools, palantíri, silmarils, Fëanorean lanterns, swords. All of his late work is militant.

Nerdanel - sculpture, forge work. We see one of her statues before we meet her.

Mahtan - more jack-of-all-trades, but mostly metalworking; he's Aulë's apprentice and Fëanor's master, so you should get the impression there's nothing he can't do.

Irimë - glassblowing

We also see Melkor's visit to the communal workshop area the Noldor have designed in Tirion - both Nerdanel and Irimë are there and at work during his visit, but of course there will be other background characters doing all sorts of things.

Fingolfin is shown to be skilled at tournament-style fighting prior to Fëanor's banishment to Formenos. The Noldor picked up this 'competitive fighting for fun' from Tulkas. [Obviously that scene was added to show pre-drawing-of-the-sword Tirion, but also to set up as early as possible Fingolfin's duel with Morgoth.]


Celegorm's relationship with Oromë and Huan is included, but I'm not sure his ability to speak and understand the tongues of all living things is made explicit.

Maglor's singing is included, of course. I think he performs at the twins' naming ceremony.

Fingon has a rather well-trained hawk/bird-of-prey that he hunts with in Episode 11.

 

[Marielle]

I don't think we've made a firm decision on Arakano. My personal feelings are that he's a bit superfluous for the narrative, but we can hold him in our deck in case we need a red-shirt death with extra punch. He'd be easy enough to insert back into scene, standing behind/beside his brother, or something. At this point, though, we can't really make him a main character. Or, at least, I don't think so.


I used the wrong word when discussing Caranthir's possible craft-- I mean blacksmith, not swordsman. Though the idea of formalized "combat" or dance as a craft... it's worth considering. Certainly dance choreography can be a work of art.

Thank you for creating this thread -- it is something we haven't paid sufficient attention to, considering. But I warn you I suspect some characters' crafts will only become clear later, once we know what role they will play -- what theme they will harmonize with, as it were -- in the narrative. For some that's clear, others have a lot of gray to fill in between their canonical moments. I do have some ideas, however.

They might not need healers in Valinor very often, but Maedhros might have a craft that could easily be converted into that -- alchemy, perhaps, or perfume-making. It's a quiet, thoughtful process, which I think suits him, and he could still do it, with some adjustments, after losing a hand. Also, it creates a similarity between him and Earendil, and makes the twins' interest in healing almost inevitable.

(nothing new to add to Maglor, other than that I like the idea of him making/improving his own instruments)

Is it too obvious to make Celegorm a woodworker, perhaps with a specialty in bows?

If any of the Gondolin Noldor are swordmakers, I'd rather it be Aredhel, rather than Turgon. It doesn't really fit my vision of him -- I see him more as making armor, not weapons -- while giving her a "hot" (ie requiring coals and flame) craft works, and it's a note of similarity between her and Eol -- a "this could work if he wasn't such a weirdo" perhaps -- and sets up her son's craft as the legacy of both mother and father, and I could see us using his craft as another way of depicting him as torn between being Eol's heir or Aredhel's.

Edited to add: As for Idril (one of my absolute favorite characters from childhood)... I've always associated her with music and dancing, probably because she's called "silver-footed" (I know it's because she hates shoes, but still).

 

[Faelivrin]

I've always wondered why, if Idril never wears shoes, she has "silver feet" instead of brown dirty feet? I mean, the streets of Tirion and Gondolin might be immaculately clean (if there are Elvish street-sweepers) but as soon as she gets onto grass or up a tree...

 

[Marielle]

...because she's a fairy princess? Tolkien didn't invent the epithet, though. I know it's used of Achilles' mother Thetis in the Iliad (in fact, went as her freshman year of college for Halloween, complete with spray-painting my feet silver), and I think it appears elsewhere in Greek lit. And the question is doubly or triply true there!

 

[Faelivrin]

One thing's for sure, the women of Fingolfin's line have strangely rigid clothing preferences. Makes me wonder if there's also something Arwen adamantly refuses to wear? (this is not a serious suggestion)

They might not need healers in Valinor very often, but Maedhros might have a craft that could easily be converted into that -- alchemy, perhaps, or perfume-making. It's a quiet, thoughtful process, which I think suits him, and he could still do it, with some adjustments, after losing a hand. Also, it creates a similarity between him and Earendil, and makes the twins' interest in healing almost inevitable.

I don't know what you mean here. The Eldar have a tradition that healers always abstain from battle and hunting except as an absolute last resort. The Dunedain have the same tradition except for the Kings. It makes Earendil kind of weird to be both a healer and a gigantic-monster-slayer. When Elrond has to go lead an army to Eregion it's as a last resort... although he's ironically good at fighting or at least leading and organizing an army, likely from being trained by the Sons of Feanor.

I think of Earendil's twins being healers as a significant contrast between them and the Sons of Feanor, who are primarily warriors. For Elrond and Elros I think the idea of taking up arms is inevitably, if subconsciously, associated with the Kinslaying which must have been very traumatic. And after the War of Wrath the world seems to need healers, not more warriors. I think Elladan and Elrohir were "fated" to prefer to become warriors in preparation for the return of Sauron to power and the wars of the Third Age.

 

[Marielle]

Perhaps... but couldn't that also be a tradition that develops over time? You above have Earendil listed as a healer and warrior, and I see no reason he's the only one allowed to have such a contradiction. We could, though, depict Maedhros as "setting aside" his craft for long periods of time, especially whenever he's about to or has just shed blood? Or Maedhros could be "skilled in herb-lore but not in the sick-room" or we could discard the idea entirely. But there are two definite sides to the very likable, ruthless, good-friend, murderer Maedhros. Combining healing and battle-craft just, well, works for him -- to my mind. And then, when we eventually get to Eowyn's choice, it's almost a recapitulation of Maedhros', only she makes the right one. But that's a very long game view.

I think you're onto something about both the "original" twins and Elrond's sons.

 

[Faelivrin]

There you have an interesting point... still I would prefer to make him an alchemist or chef. Or both. Cooking is "herb-lore" in a way and a sort of nurturing craft. To me healing requires or implies a gentle person, which is... none of the Sons of Feanor, really. And Maedhros goes hunting in his spare time.

I suspect Earendil may have been inclined towards fighting and adventuring, but he inherited the Elessar from Idril. The stone was made to be a healer's (or gardener's?) tool. It was made for her, so that probably means Idril is a healer (and/or gardener).

 

[Marielle]

You're right. It doesn't have to be healing... but something constructive, nurturing.

But when it comes to healing=gentle... again, I go to Eowyn. I don't think her deciding to become a healer means she's giving up the steel in her personality, or is becoming meek and mild. Nor does gentleness define Gandalf or Aragorn, though of course both are capable of being so while healing ills. So I think we could go too far with associating healing with softness or passivity -- my words, not yours.

On the other hand, having a number of characters associated both with healing and fighting appeals to me, as a way to explore different facets of each's personality. Some, like Aragorn, would be quite comfortable with the apparent dichotomy, while others might never find the right balance, in either direction -- Orodreth seems to be a candidate for leaning too far towards healing and against fighting, for example. Even so, it doesn't have to be Maedhros: though if we have a Feanorean in that group, I think it sort of have to be him.

Idril being a healer works for me. She's still a child, I think, in our depiction, so the Helcaraxe is likely to be a defining moment in her life and personality. A constructive impulse coming from that trauma might very well be an inclination to heal and soothe hurts and wounds.

 

[amysrevenge]

Yeah gentle healer is an archetype, but it's not proscriptive (prescriptive? I forget which I want). You can go different ways with it.

 

[Faelivrin]

The Helkaraxe: the one and only time in her whole life that Idril wore shoes.

Sorry, it's just so easy to make fun of her shoe-aversion.

Anyway ... the association of healing with being peaceful and passive isn't a necessary one, but it is the association in Eldarin culture -- to the point that they believe hunting or fighting causes a person to become less talented at healing. (Which may be a totally baseless superstition.) There are apparently people who become skilled in both anyway -- Beleg is one. I get the impression it's very rare for an Elda to do both as a full vocation. Maybe that superstition is not believed by the Sindar.

 

[Konrad S]

Maedhros was hunting with Finrod and Maglor after the loss of his right hand and he was a good swordsman and a fierce warrior after so he can atleast Hunt and fight with only one hand.

 

[Marielle]

On another note, I'm all for playing with unusual crafts for our characters, and scorning modern gender or class assumptions as we do it, but cooking... I can't see it for Maedhros. It's certainly an artform, when you get to the best of the best, but it's so... temporary? Fleeting? So is healing, I guess, but it doesn't seem like enough of an impact for a character as important as Maedhros.

 

[Konrad S]

I think for many of the leaders and nobles there would be alot of managing kingdoms so that would make limited time for hobbies.

 

[Faelivrin]

Yeah I didn't mean to imply Maedhros couldn't kill people efficiently with one hand...

Cooking is considered a masculine art by the Eldar... baking and playing musical instruments are considered feminine. I think cooking would fit Maedhros, but can't see him as a healer.

Anyway I forgot to mention I like your other ideas, Marielle.


I feel like Finrod could be a painter as well as a stone-carver. It could be a neat expression of his interest in understanding other people if he sculpts or paints portraits. But I don't know if portraits are a typical part of Noldorin culture, or just something idiosyncratic that only Nerdanel does. Still, one of Finrod's favorite hobbies is literally "wandering." Maybe after he comes home he paints landscapes/seascapes to show other people where he's been and how beautiful or awesome it was.

I think for many of the leaders and nobles there would be alot of managing kingdoms so that would make limited time for hobbies.

This is probably often true after they come to Middle-earth. But there is some time for hobbies and crafts during the Siege, and even before during the building of Nargothrond and Gondolin.

But maybe somebody like Gil-galad, growing up post-Nirnaeth, didn't have much time for hobbies. Though he must have had hobbies in the Second Age.

 

[MithLuin]

In many fanfics of the Sons of Fëanor in Valinor, Maedhros is shown more-or-less 'raising' his younger brothers, as their parents are too consumed with their art/craftsmanship to be bothered with things like cooking dinner (blame Ithilwen for this). So, yes, people have written about him doing childcare/cooking/domestic activities as a young man and it worked. He never marries, so it's not his role in a married household or anything, but you can certainly get away with making that an aspect of his character. [Having the men cook is in line with laws and customs of the Eldar, so long as strictly the women bake bread.]

We did NOT do that in this project, because with only the brief snippets you'd see on screen, it would look like his parents were neglectful/ignoring their children, and it would seem irresponsible to have such a large family (by elvish standards) and then be like, 'Kids? What kids?' Maedhros is just a background character in earlier episodes, anyway. It was tricky enough to depict Fëanor making the silmarils while the twins were young, because it very much looked like he'd abandoned Nerdanel to deal with twins on her own, and then her complaints about him disappearing into his lab looked like 'Come to dinner, dear; your turn to do the bathtime/bedtime routine,' which was a bit too domestic for the 'You're scary obsessed and it worries me,' conversation.


It is worth pointing out that Maedhros becomes a more serious/deadly warrior AFTER he loses his right hand. We are not depicting him as a serious/fanatic follower of his father at first. He is treating the military exercises as a game and not taking them overly seriously. He's very clearly *not* trying to kill anyone when they practice. [We have a brief exchange where Fëanor chastises him for not taking it seriously enough.] I'm not suggesting that he is anything less than loyal to Fëanor, nor that he is indifferent to his father's approval. But if you've seen Rudy, you might remember the scene where one of the other players complains that he's treating practice like a game - Maedhros-in-Valinor is not Rudy (though Curufin is).


Elrond learned the healing skills he's renowned for *somewhere*. He was kidnapped from the Havens when he was too young to have learned anything like that, so it was definitely someone in the Fëanorean camp who taught him. Doesn't mean it was Maglor or Maedhros though; it could have been a non-combatant. Elrond was also the Herald of Gil-galad, so taking part in battles wasn't exactly foreign to him. While it is ideal to separate the warrior class from the healing class (apparently), that isn't a hard-and-fast rule we must stick to.

They have doctors/healers in Valinor. After all, we will be depicting Míriel's "wasting disease" and her treatments. We have a kid fall into a (dry/abandoned) well. Women give birth. There are no doubt farming accidents. (Visit any shrine in Europe - farming accidents that require healing are super common even without modern machinery). I personally know two people who were killed in accidents on farms, so...yeah. I don't care if you're the hardiest elf ever - if a tree falls on you, you're going to have a problem.

But yes, healers are in even greater demand once battles become a thing. All of the Sons of Fëanor are injured in the Unnumbered Tears, as an example. Surely we should see some Noldor take up the art after coming to Middle Earth. Elves might not seem to be terribly adaptable, but sometimes they just have to. What did the mariners of Nevrast (like Voronwë's family) do in Gondolin? No ships there.... So, yes, someone is going to have to treat Maedhros when he returns from Thangorodrim. He should be emaciated, starved, suffering aftereffects of torture, and severely wounded (not just the fresh wound of the cleanly cut hand; if ever there were a case for a scarred elf, it's him in this circumstance). Maglor sucks as a leader; is he better as a nurse?


(Back to packing)

 

[Faelivrin]

Very good points!

In many fanfics of the Sons of Fëanor in Valinor, Maedhros is shown more-or-less 'raising' his younger brothers, as their parents are too consumed with their art/craftsmanship to be bothered with things like cooking dinner

But... royal people have servants... they never have to do their own cooking or cleaning. Or mend their clothes. Or groom their horses. Or dress or armor themselves. Or brush their own hair. They only have to do mundane chores if they enjoy them. (Elves probably do expect parents to suckle and raise their own kids in other ways, though.) If making servants do umpteen petty things that you consider beneath you wasn't an Eldarin royal tradition, Feanor would start that tradition.

Elrond learned the healing skills he's renowned for *somewhere*. He was kidnapped from the Havens when he was too young to have learned anything like that, so it was definitely someone in the Fëanorean camp who taught him. Doesn't mean it was Maglor or Maedhros though; it could have been a non-combatant. Elrond was also the Herald of Gil-galad, so taking part in battles wasn't exactly foreign to him.

And it seems that Melian's descendants all inherited a wonderful talent for healing, for example being able to do things with athelas that ordinary people (or at least, ordinary Humans) can't. I imagine the twins surpassing their teacher fairly quickly.

But what does a Herald do? Do they fight, or carry messages, or just ride around holding a standard? (Glancing in Wikipedia, it looks like "royal messenger/ambassador/diplomat"). He was also banner-bearer. He had to defend himself, of course, but does that mean he was a primary combatant? Did he carry the King's banner in battle, or only in ceremonies outside of battle?

While it is ideal to separate the warrior class from the healing class (apparently), that isn't a hard-and-fast rule we must stick to.

It is true most of the time, though.

Perhaps... but couldn't that also be a tradition that develops over time?

It could. But it also refers to hunting so it seems to me like an older belief.

 

[amysrevenge]

But how much of the way people have servants is tied to our mortality? If the passage of time means nothing, and there is no shortage of resources, a)who needs servants and b)who would be a servant?

(This is a question to be asked about practically every social or cultural or political practice really - I think in reality we would have a LOT less in common with immortals than Tolkien's Elves and Men have.)