Bruce N H
Active Member
Hi all,
I was just re-listening to Nature of Middle Earth class 4 in preparation for class 5 this evening and something struck me. I'll just outline this:
Known facts (or at least conclusions we've drawn):
-Arda is marred in fundamental ways due to Melkor's involvement in the Music.
-The elves did not fall in a single act like the Garden of Eden story, but rather their natures carry some fallability* because of their ties to Arda Marred.
-The Ainur entered into Arda and are affected by it. They inhabit Arda as the soul inhabits the body.
-Ainur (at least those in Arda) can fall or come near to falling - see Aule, Osse, Sauron, Saruman. Per our discussion in class 4 and comparison to medieval angelology, perhaps post-Music Ainur who never entered Arda are in a perpetually un-fallable state.
-The Valar can have failures of faith in Eru and failures to live up to Eru's plan for them (see our discussion in class 4).
Speculation:
-Perhaps the Ainur we meet have the ability to have incomplete faith in Eru, don't live up to Eru's plan, and can even fall completely BECAUSE in entering and becoming tied to Arda they become affected by Arda Marred (and therefore ultimately by Melkor).
Thoughts?
Oh, random tangent question. If that is true, what about Tulkas. He came in later, with a specific mission to fight Melkor. Does that mean he isn't tied to Arda in the same way? If so, does he bear the taint of Arda Marred at all?
Bruce / Bricktales
*Okay, I didn't remember the word so Googled. It's peccability. Or if we wanted to get all fancy and Latin, posse peccare. I remember long ago reading a whole discussion about the nature of pre-Fall Adam, about Christ, and about others post-second-coming that kept throwing around "posse peccare", "non posse peccare", and "posse non peccare".
I was just re-listening to Nature of Middle Earth class 4 in preparation for class 5 this evening and something struck me. I'll just outline this:
Known facts (or at least conclusions we've drawn):
-Arda is marred in fundamental ways due to Melkor's involvement in the Music.
-The elves did not fall in a single act like the Garden of Eden story, but rather their natures carry some fallability* because of their ties to Arda Marred.
-The Ainur entered into Arda and are affected by it. They inhabit Arda as the soul inhabits the body.
-Ainur (at least those in Arda) can fall or come near to falling - see Aule, Osse, Sauron, Saruman. Per our discussion in class 4 and comparison to medieval angelology, perhaps post-Music Ainur who never entered Arda are in a perpetually un-fallable state.
-The Valar can have failures of faith in Eru and failures to live up to Eru's plan for them (see our discussion in class 4).
Speculation:
-Perhaps the Ainur we meet have the ability to have incomplete faith in Eru, don't live up to Eru's plan, and can even fall completely BECAUSE in entering and becoming tied to Arda they become affected by Arda Marred (and therefore ultimately by Melkor).
Thoughts?
Oh, random tangent question. If that is true, what about Tulkas. He came in later, with a specific mission to fight Melkor. Does that mean he isn't tied to Arda in the same way? If so, does he bear the taint of Arda Marred at all?
Bruce / Bricktales
*Okay, I didn't remember the word so Googled. It's peccability. Or if we wanted to get all fancy and Latin, posse peccare. I remember long ago reading a whole discussion about the nature of pre-Fall Adam, about Christ, and about others post-second-coming that kept throwing around "posse peccare", "non posse peccare", and "posse non peccare".