Of Beleriand and its Realms

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
So ... I'm not entirely sure if we're getting here in this season or season four, but if we are, we have some deciding to do.

In the 260-year period following the rising of the sun, a bunch of kingdoms are established, a couple of major battles take place, Thingol finds out about the kinslaying, and Glaurung is revealed.

My big question is if we should conflate the lands of the sons of Feanor. There aren't many place-names associated with them, and they don't really enter into the great tales. It seems as if it would be fairly easy to reduce the amount of geographical exposition with this.

I'm currently working on a visual timeline that will show the different kingdoms and their interactions. I'm hoping this will give us things to do in this time period.
 
Most of the content 'Of Beleriand and its Realms' will be in Season 4. Season 3 will end either with the rescue of Maedhros by Fingon, or the decision by Maedhros to acknowledge Fingolfin as High King of the Noldor in Middle Earth.

So, when we reach our finale, we will have the leaderless Green Elves in Ossiriand, Thingol and Melian in Doriath, and pretty much all of the Noldor in Hithlum/Mithrim. Either at the very end of Season 3 or the beginning of Season 4, the Fëanoreans will move to the East.

None of the Fëanoreans will be kings or have kingdoms. So, yes, we could decide that the names of their lands aren't that important.

But we will need the fortress of Himring, as well as an understanding of why that would be the most likely area for Morgoth to attack...what makes the March of Maedhros more vulnerable than Dorthonion or Hithlum?

And Caranthir has to be on his own in Thargelion, as that is near the dwarves and the Easterlings.

And Celegorm and Curufin need to own Himlad, the lands around Nan Elmoth

And whatever twins survive make their way down to Amon Ereb.


So obviously you aren't going to convince me to simplify the geography here, though we can initially just say that all of the brothers moved to realms of their own in East Beleriand.
 
It definitely does seem to me that a natural ending for Season 4 is the release of Glaurung as a "young" dragon.

I am willing to accept splitting the Feanorians up with the understanding that their realms and abides will require developing. I am hoping that we can mine the text for story material, but this period does seem ripe for the invention of political intrigue plots, with major events as setpieces.


As you say, however, this is more a Season 4 issue.
 
We will have to plan Season 3 before we know for sure what happens in Season 4, but since we want Season 5 to be 'Beren and Lúthien,' it is pretty well established that Season 4 will end with the duel between Fingolfin and Morgoth at the end of the Dagor Bragollach in FA 455. Since this season will be starting in about FA 20 (or thereabouts), that is a lot of time to cover.

Season 4 will be a lot of set up and building towards more exciting things. So, we will meet Men, we will build Nargothrond and Gondolin, and Thingol will find out about the Kinslaying. Oh, and we'll do the Aredhel/Eöl and Andreth/Aegnor storylines here. There will be a lot of journeying about in Beleriand to see all of that happen.

Basically, the opening credits might very well include a map, a la Game of Thrones.
 
I really think I'm going to have to fight for Beren and Luthien being pushed back a bit. I know we're all in a hurry to get to the "Great Tales," but there is way too much to establish before we get there.
 
The Hosts are under the impression that nothing much happens in Season 4. They're not entirely wrong - 'Of Beleriand and its Realms' isn't exactly gripping TV. The Watchful Peace is just that - peaceful. But....it's still a lot of historical ground to cover, and I think it will fill up faster than they expected. That is one reason I want to push for Season 3 taking us through the crowning of Fingolfin, so we have less ground to cover in Season 4. Because even if the stories for Season 4 aren't super exciting, they do take their time unfolding....

Current breakdown is roughly:

Season 1
  • Ainulindálë
  • Valaquenta
Season 2
Season 3
  • Of Men - This bit will be in Season 4.
Season 4
Season 5
Season 6? - probably will be the lead-in to the Túrin season, but...?
Season 7
Season 8
Season 9


Or, going by chronology, we have: (Edit based on updated Season 3 timeline)

mid-Season 1
YEARS OF THE TREES BEGIN
1 The Two Trees are created
1000 Varda begins to make the great constellations (1)

Season 2
1050 Elves awaken (1, 2)
1085 Oromë meets the Elves

1090 Valar attack Morgoth
1099 Breaking of Utumno (
1)
1100 Binding of Melkor (
1, 2)
1101 Valar summon the Quendi to Valinor (1)
1102 Ingwë, Finwë and Elwë brought to Valinor (
1, 2)
1104 Ingwë, Finwë and Elwë return to Cuiviénen
1105 Elves set out on the Great Journey
1115 Nandor abandon the March
1125 Vanyar and Noldor reach Beleriand (
1)
1128 Teleri reach Beleriand
1130 Elwë meets Melian (
1, 2)
1132 Vanyar and Noldor leave Middle-earth
1133 Vanyar and Noldor reach Valinor (
1)
1140 Tirion completed. Ingwë leaves Tirion
1150 Olwë and other Teleri leave Middle-earth (
1, 2)
1151 Grounding of Tol Eressëa (
1)
1152 Elwë returns to the Sindar (
1, 2)
1161 Teleri reach Valinor
1165 The last Vanyar leave Tirion (
1)
1169 Birth of Fëanor
1170 Death of Míriel (
3)
1185 Marriage of Finwë and Indis (
4)
1190 Birth of Fingolfin (
1)
1200 Birth of Lúthien (2)
1230 Birth of Finarfin (1)
1250 Dwarves enter Beleriand. Fëanor creates a new alphabet for the Elves. (1, 2)
1280 Marriage of Finarfin and Eärwen (
1)
1300 Thingol builds Menegroth. Daeron invents the Runes. Birth of Turgon and of Finrod.
1330 Orcs enter Beleriand
1350 Nandor enter Beleriand (
2)
1362 Births of Aredhel and of Galadriel (5)
1400 Melkor released (
2)
1449 Fëanor begins work on the Silmarils
1450 Fëanor completes the Silmarils
1490 Banishment of Fëanor
1492 Melkor visits Formenos
1495 Darkening of Valinor. Death of Finwë
and ...

Season 3
1495 Flight of the Noldor. First Kinslaying. (1, 2)
1496 Doom of Mandos. Finarfin turns back. (
1)
1497 Morgoth attacks Beleriand. Fëanor reaches Middle-earth and burns the ships. Death of Fëanor. Capture of Maedhros. (
1, 2)
1498 Maedhros sent to Thangorodrim (
2)
1500 Rising of the Moon and the Sun. Hiding of Valinor. Fingolfin reaches Middle-earth. (
1, 2)
FIRST AGE BEGINS
1 Rising of the Moon and the Sun. Fingolfin reaches Middle-earth.

Season 4
2 Fingolfin arrives in Mithrim
5 Fingon rescues Maedhros and the Noldor are reunited.
7 Sons of Fëanor leave Mithrim.

20 Fingolfin holds the Feast of Reuniting
52 Finrod begins to build Nargothrond
53 Turgon discovers the site of Gondolin
60 Dagor Aglareb. Morgoth invades Beleriand and is defeated.
64 Turgon begins the building of Gondolin
67 Thingol bans Quenya from Doriath
102 Nargothrond is completed
116 Gondolin is completed
150 Caranthir makes contact with the Dwarves
155 Morgoth attempts to attack Hithlum and is driven off
260 Glaurung invades Ard-galen and is repelled by Fingon (2) *alternative suggested breaking point for Season 4*
310 Finrod meets Bëor (7)
312 Haladin enter Beleriand
313 People of Marach enter Beleriand
316 Aredhel encounters Eöl
320 Birth of Maeglin
355 Death of Bëor
361 Birth of Andreth
369 Bereg leads some of the Edain back to the East
375 Haleth becomes chief of the Haladin
376 Haladin settle in Estolad
390 Haladin leave Estolad
400 Aredhel and Maeglin ride to Gondolin. Deaths of Aredhel and Eöl.
410 Boromir of the House of Bëor becomes lord of Ladros in Dorthonion
416 Fingolfin gives Dorlómin to Hador
420 Death of Haleth
432 Birth of Beren
441 Birth of Húrin
443 Birth of Morwen
444 Birth of Huor

455 Dagor Bragollach. Deaths of Angrod and Aegnor.
456 Death of Fingolfin

Season 5
458 Morgoth attacks Brethil and is driven off with help from Doriath. Húrin and Huor visit Gondolin.

460 Death of Barahir
462 Morgoth attacks Hithlum and is driven off with help from Círdan
463 Easterlings enter Beleriand
464 Beren enters Doriath. Birth of Túrin

465 Beren comes to Nargothrond. Death of Finrod.
466 Beren and Lúthien take the Silmaril
467 First deaths of Beren and Lúthien

Season 6? (Honestly, we can take two seasons for the Túrin material, using this as the lead-in and the Nauglamir/Sack of Doriath as the ending. But I don't know where we are breaking these seasons, or what we are including, so....)
468 Maedhros begins to construct the Union against Morgoth
469 Maedhros retakes Dorthonion. Beren and Lúthien return briefly to Doriath.
470 Birth of Dior Eluchíl
472 Nirnaeth Arnediad. Death of Fingon. Capture of Húrin.


Season 7
472 Birth of Tuor. Morwen sends Túrin to Doriath.
473 Birth of Nienor. Túrin reaches Doriath. Morgoth attacks and devastates the Havens of Círdan.
484 Túrin leaves Doriath
487 Beleg joins Túrin’s band
488 Tuor captured by Easterlings
489 Death of Beleg
490 Túrin comes to Nargothrond
491 Tuor escapes from the Easterlings
494 Morwen and Nienor come to Doriath
495 Fall of Nargothrond and deaths of Orodreth and Finduilas. Orcs attack Brethil. Tuor leaves Hithlum.
496 Tuor comes to Gondolin. Morwen and Nienor leave Doriath. Túrin meets Nienor.
498 Túrin and Nienor marry
499 Deaths of Glaurung, Nienor and Túrin
500 Morgoth releases Húrin
501 Death of Morwen
502 Marriage of Tuor and Idril. Húrin kills Mîm. Húrin comes to Doriath. (2)

Season 8
503 Death of Thingol. Birth of Eärendil. Birth of Elwing.

504 Dior becomes king of Doriath
506 Second Kinslaying and death of Dior
509 Maeglin captured by Morgoth
510 Fall of Gondolin and death of Turgon


Season 9
511 Survivors of Gondolin reach Sirion
532 Birth of Elros and Elrond
538 Third Kinslaying
542 Eärendil reaches Valinor
545 Host of Valinor lands
587 Destruction of Angband. Maedhros and Maglor seize the Silmarils. Death of Maedhros.
590 Morgoth thrust into the Void. End of the First Age. (6)


Source for Chronology: http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/reference/references/chronology-of-the-silmarillion.php
 
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Yes. Now, I'm aware of the fact that most of what happens between 20 and 457 FA is mostly historical background stuff, but there are some major events that take place there, and like in Season 1, we may have to create some story to hang on those events in order for viewers to care about them. A bigger concern for me is the setup for the arrival of men. Squeezing them into the last half of Season 4 will, in my estimation, make it very hard for us to care about them in contrast with the elves we've been introducing for 2.5 seasons at that point.
 
Season 4 will probably have a lot of politicking in it, as the Sindar and Noldor settle into the "new normal". When we get there, we'll have to think how we want to distinguish SilmFilm politics from GoT. Even beyond that, we have Aegnor and Andreth's sweet relationship and Eol and Aredhel's... not. Going with MithLuin's repeated hintings about half-cousins not being incest, we might want to give Celegorm a subplot in Season 4, an "almost-might-have-been"; maybe he was hunting nearby, and she would have found him, even though hopelessly lost, if Eol hadn't intervened?

We'll also have the introduction of Men. Really, a lot happens in Season 4, it's just ... not told in detail anywhere in Tolkien's writings. We'll have a lot to fill in, and, of course, we'll have to build up to the Dagor Bragollach.
 
The stories to make us care about Men that happen prior to the Dagor Bragollach:

1) The meeting of Finrod and Bëor, their friendship, and Bëor's eventual death of old age (FA 310-355)
2) The ill-fated romance of Andreth and Aegnor, leading to him abandoning her and (eventually) dying in the battle; she dies the same year, as a bitter old woman. (FA 361-455)
3) Haleth. Everything about Haleth. I think her story is slated for beefing up. (FA 341-420)

Andreth is Bëor's great-great-granddaughter. [His years are from his meeting with Finrod, not his birth; he was born in 262.]
 
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Yeah I think that the reason S4 seems short is that the PubSil glosses over all those years of the Watchful Peace. We don't have to (and shouldn't) do that. Especially with Men and Dwarves coming on the scene. PubSil tells the Elf story - beyond the barest of frameworks, we're going to be entirely making up the Man and (especially) Dwarf stories.

One thing we need to establish is that the same Elves are dealing with generation after generation of different Men, and that this is a normal thing which is, beyond normal sadness at an individual's passing, not... institutionally tragic.

It's a bit out of scope for S3 I suppose, but I agree that we have to at least be open to the possibility of splitting S4 into two seasons here. In order to keep S4 as one season, we pretty much are stuck with keeping Dwarves as D-level sub-sub-sub characters. To flesh them out at all would take, I think, several Dwarf-only (maybe with Eol) episodes, with invented-by-us stakes and important-to-Dwarves scenarios and outcomes that you don't even see ripples of in PubSil.


ETA: It's a strain of the Hobbit film problem. Regardless of whether you think the actual PJ follow-through was good or not, there is just so much more you need to do to properly tell the Hobbit story than slavishly following the text can manage - even a "perfect" Hobbit film told in anything other than a children's fairy story frame would need to be long enough to engender "lol so many movies for tiny kiddie book" social media clever jokes of dismissal. It's the same with the Watchful Peace. It's basically dismissed in a paragraph or two, but stuff "off camera" is happening that we should be covering to tell the whole story.
 
The dwarves have 3 points of contact for the story we are currently designating as part of 'Season 4':

Finrod needs some help building Nargothrond, and Thingol is going to set him up with the dwarvish contacts that made Menegroth happen. Finrod, who gets along with *everyone,* is going to be named 'Felagund' (Hewer of Caves) by these dwarves. It's the most positive elf-dwarf relationship besides Gimli and Legolas, I think.

Caranthir is going to meet the dwarves. They have a mutually beneficial business deal going on, but not-so-secretly hate each other. So, definitely the opportunity to show some public face of the dwarves turn around and reveal a different face in private, back in their own halls with no elves around.

And finally there is Eöl, who gets along better with the dwarves than the elves, being one of the Avari and having no interest in the Sindar or the Noldor (well, besides Aredhel). I have to imagine we will show his journeys to Nogrod and/or Belegost at some point.

Season 3 will consist almost entirely of scenes that are specifically described by Tolkien. Season 4 will give us the freedom to invent our own scenes to tell the stories Tolkien only alluded to (or told in part)
 
And finally there is Eöl, who gets along better with the dwarves than the elves, being one of the Avari and having no interest in the Sindar or the Noldor (well, besides Aredhel). I have to imagine we will show his journeys to Nogrod and/or Belegost at some point.

This is the story that is making me consider what to do with Dwarves ahead of time.

When Eol walks into Nogrod for the first time, is it also the first time (and maybe the last?) the audience sees it? Or is it the merging of two previously established stories?
 
Right - we will introduce the dwarves in Season 3, but I don't know what we're doing with them yet.
 
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