Orcs

Faelivrin said:
I’m not sure if you mean cross-breeding Trolls with Orcs. I don’t think different species can be crossed that way, except Ainur can breed with anything if they want.

We depicted Trolls as an attempt to improve in Orcs? If we did then it makes sense for them to be stronger and/or tougher than Orcs, even when not bigger.
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Didn’t stop Saruman cross-breeding Orcs and Men to create Uruk-hai.
 
Orcs are derived from Children of Illuvatar, so yep, they can cross. Like Elves and Men, but with more horrible results. 😱 But Trolls aren’t descended from the same source.

Stone-Trolls are golems, and Olog-Hai are either corrupted from Ents, or else some other creatures. I think it would be something like trying to cross a human with a tree, a statue, or a gorilla.
 
Faelivrin said:
Orcs are derived from Children of Illuvatar, so yep, they can cross. Like Elves and Men, but with more horrible results. 😱 But Trolls aren’t descended from the same source.

Stone-Trolls are golems, and Olog-Hai are either corrupted from Ents, or else some other creatures. I think it would be something like trying to cross a human with a tree, a statue, or a gorilla.
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How did Morgoth or Sauron kidnap an Ent to make a troll?

I thought the Olog-Hai only show up during the late Third Age.

http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Olog-hai
 
Yeah, Olog-Hai aren't in the First Age, I'm just pointing out they aren't going to breed with Orcs either.

And how? If it was Ents, maybe the Entwives were all enslaved... or little Entings were captured? Or maybe Olog-Hai came from some other origin.
 
Faelivrin said:
I’m not sure if you mean cross-breeding Trolls with Orcs. I don’t think different species can be crossed that way, except Ainur can breed with anything if they want.

Did we depict Trolls as an attempt to improve on Orcs? If we did then it makes sense for them to be stronger and/or tougher than Orcs, even when not bigger.

Edit: grammar
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See my new posts in "Trolls".

I think it just depends on how much of cybernetics, bioengineering plus sorcery we imagine Morgoth to use.I mean we'll still come to dragons...
 
A few more orc-quotes i have found. Just to finish the collection..

They would at least 'be'
real physical realities in the physical world, however evil they might prove, even 'mocking' the
Children of God. They would be Morgoth's greatest Sins, abuses of his highest privilege, and would
be creatures begotten of Sin, and naturally bad. (I nearly wrote 'irredeemably bad'; but that would be
going too far. Because by accepting or tolerating their making – necessary to their actual existence
– even Orcs would become part of the World, which is God's and ultimately good.) But whether
they could have 'souls' or 'spirits' seems a different question; and since in my myth at any rate I do
not conceive of the making of souls or spirits, things of an equal order if not an equal power to the
Valar, as a possible 'delegation', I have represented at least the Orcs as pre-existing real beings on
whom the Dark Lord has exerted the fullness of his power in remodelling and corrupting them, not
making them. That God would 'tolerate' that, seems no worse theology than the toleration of the
calculated dehumanizing of Men by tyrants that goes on today. There might be other 'makings' all
the same which were more like puppets filled (only at a distance) with their maker's mind and will or ant-like operating under direction of a queen-centre.,
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The Orcs are
definitely stated to be corruptions of the 'human' form seen in Elves and Men. They are (or were)
squat, broad, flat-nosed, sallow-skinned, with wide mouths and slant eyes: in fact degraded and
repulsive versions of the (to Europeans) least lovely Mongol-types.
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; Elves may turn into Orcs, and if this required the special
perversive malice of Morgoth, still Elves themselves could do evil deeds.
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Hi there! This is not actually affecting silmfilm in the close sense any more, but i have written a fanfic article on the notion club archives which tries to find an explanation for the orc-soul problem.

The artikel is written from an in-verse point of view and so has to be taken with a grain of salt -we don't know if this or how much of it is true...

What do you guys think of it?

merp.fandom.com

Hûdhsunga

The Hûdhsunga (Orc."Soul-capture") was the rite of passage, as well as mental and emotional birth, for every Orc-Imp. Unlike and unknown to most other races orcs were born as soulless animals with a Hröa (Orc."Maushat", lit."Flesh") but no Fëa (Orc."Frúm"). Therefore, after surviving their...
merp.fandom.com merp.fandom.com
 
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I still don't quite get the idea behind making Gorgol big; might as well use Boldog since there's almost no difference between the two.
 
Ange1e4e5 said:
I still don't quite get the idea behind making Gorgol big; might as well use Boldog since there's almost no difference between the two.
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do you mean my illustrations? It doesn't look,like it but compare the head-sizes... Gorgol Is FAR smaller than Boldog.Boldog is as tall as one of the tall eldar or Ainur or the tallest of the Edain, Gorgol,is at best a bit taller than one of the taller Easterlings.Most important to me was the built, Boldog is tall but muscular , Gorgol is more squad and brawny, still an elite-orc but not an incarnate Maia.

In character they are totally different, i don't see why you claim they are almost the same...?
 
Haerangil said:
do you mean my illustrations? It doesn't look,like it but compare the head-sizes... Gorgol Is FAR smaller than Boldog.Boldog is as tall as one of the tall eldar or Ainur or the tallest of the Edain, Gorgol,is at best a bit taller than one of the taller Easterlings.Most important to me was the built, Boldog is tall but muscular , Gorgol is more squad and brawny, still an elite-orc but not an incarnate Maia.

In character they are totally different, i don't see why you claim they are almost the same...?
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Yes; from the illustrations it looked like Boldog and Gorgol were about the same size.
 
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