I just listened to the podcast of Episode 13 while out on my daily walk, enjoying the delicate petals from blossoms drifting on the breeze across my path, and have a few comments. It seems that the discussion at some points was based not on the text itself, but on something else. I'll post my comments here rather than the "questions", because they are not questions:
There was not much in the text of Frodo's time with Gildor that gives an indication of the size or stature of the elves. Clearly, they were not sprites, or the banquet would have been described differently. During the trek to Woodhall, everyone walked, and there is no indication that the elves walked a different pace than the hobbits who accompanied them. If there was a great difference in size between hobbits and elves, their normal pace would need to have been adjusted to match that of the hobbits. When Pippin staggers, we read that "a tall Elf at his side put out his arm and saved him from a fall." What exactly does a "tall Elf" mean? Taller than other Elves? Taller than the Hobbits? Tall compared to men? The text does not say. If this is our first encounter with Tolkien's Elves, all we know is these elves are not sprites, and they were tall enough to steady a staggering Pippin, nothing more. Oh, we also know that "Elves (even more than hobbits) could walk when they wished without sound or footfall." When they step on a branch, does it not break, break without a sound, or do they adjust every step to avoid the branches? This quiet walking might possibly be construed as an indication of the size or stature of Elves. One more thing, much later in the book we will read that Pippin himself becomes amazingly tall. Tall is a relative term.
There was much discussion of the chance encounter with Gildor's company, and whether others in the same situation would have seen them or not. Clearly, the black rider heard them. Frodo tells Sam, "One can meet them sometimes in the Woody End." We do later read that the Elves had often seen Frodo with Bilbo, though the Elves remained unseen. There is no indication in the text here as to why the Elves are sometimes seen and sometimes not seen.
When the company turns aside from the path, we read "A green ride lay almost unseen through the thickets on the right; and this they followed..." My dictionary gives the following definition of ride, "a way (as a road or path) suitable for riding." Why is the ride unseen, because of the dark of the night, or because of Elf enchantment? In any case, it was certainly more open than a footpath, in order to be suitable for riding. I don't believe there is any indication of Elf-enchantment about the path, at least not in the text.
Similarly, there is no indication that the clearing in the woods above the village of Woodhall is enchanted so that one could get there only when travelling with Elves. Thorin's company in The Hobbit could certainly get to the places where the Wood Elves held their feasts. I think the same may be the case here, but the clearing or the hall in the woods might not appear quite as it did when under Elf enchantment. The only real indication the text gives us is the name of the village, Woodhall. This suggests that the hobbits in the village may have been aware of a hall-like spot in the woods above their village that lends the village it's name.
There was quite some discussion about playful banter of Elves and their merry attitude. Corey suggests that Gildor was likely one of the Tra-la-lally Elves that Bilbo encountered in Rivendell in The Hobbit. I believe that Gildor might well have been one of those Elves had he been there. But based on the text in this chapter, he probably was not. Frodo tells Sam "One can meet [Elves] sometimes in the Woody End. ... they wander into it ... out of their own lands away beyond the Tower Hills." It seems likely that Gildor is from the Tower Hills, not Rivendell. At least, that is what the text suggests.
There was some discussion of Elrond. We encountered Elrond in The Hobbit, not as one of the Tra-la-lally Elves, but as the Lord of Rivendell where those Elves live. However, in this chapter, he is refered to as "Elrond Halfelven", and Rivendell as "that deep valley ... where many of the Fair Folk still dwell in peace." We don't yet know the story that explains why would be called half Elven, but it seems as the text suggests we should not consider him quite the same as those who are fully Elves. It might possibly remind one of the Took-Baggins dichotomy of The Hobbit.
When discussing the stars, Corey made a comment about Mars not rising at this time of the night in September. I'm not a star or planet watcher, but I always assumed that the rising of Mars and the other planets would be more based on where they were in their orbits rather than where the earth was in it's orbit (which is what the month of September indicates). Please let me know if I'm confused on this. But Corey does make a good case of the two constellations and the red star between them.
There was not much in the text of Frodo's time with Gildor that gives an indication of the size or stature of the elves. Clearly, they were not sprites, or the banquet would have been described differently. During the trek to Woodhall, everyone walked, and there is no indication that the elves walked a different pace than the hobbits who accompanied them. If there was a great difference in size between hobbits and elves, their normal pace would need to have been adjusted to match that of the hobbits. When Pippin staggers, we read that "a tall Elf at his side put out his arm and saved him from a fall." What exactly does a "tall Elf" mean? Taller than other Elves? Taller than the Hobbits? Tall compared to men? The text does not say. If this is our first encounter with Tolkien's Elves, all we know is these elves are not sprites, and they were tall enough to steady a staggering Pippin, nothing more. Oh, we also know that "Elves (even more than hobbits) could walk when they wished without sound or footfall." When they step on a branch, does it not break, break without a sound, or do they adjust every step to avoid the branches? This quiet walking might possibly be construed as an indication of the size or stature of Elves. One more thing, much later in the book we will read that Pippin himself becomes amazingly tall. Tall is a relative term.
There was much discussion of the chance encounter with Gildor's company, and whether others in the same situation would have seen them or not. Clearly, the black rider heard them. Frodo tells Sam, "One can meet them sometimes in the Woody End." We do later read that the Elves had often seen Frodo with Bilbo, though the Elves remained unseen. There is no indication in the text here as to why the Elves are sometimes seen and sometimes not seen.
When the company turns aside from the path, we read "A green ride lay almost unseen through the thickets on the right; and this they followed..." My dictionary gives the following definition of ride, "a way (as a road or path) suitable for riding." Why is the ride unseen, because of the dark of the night, or because of Elf enchantment? In any case, it was certainly more open than a footpath, in order to be suitable for riding. I don't believe there is any indication of Elf-enchantment about the path, at least not in the text.
Similarly, there is no indication that the clearing in the woods above the village of Woodhall is enchanted so that one could get there only when travelling with Elves. Thorin's company in The Hobbit could certainly get to the places where the Wood Elves held their feasts. I think the same may be the case here, but the clearing or the hall in the woods might not appear quite as it did when under Elf enchantment. The only real indication the text gives us is the name of the village, Woodhall. This suggests that the hobbits in the village may have been aware of a hall-like spot in the woods above their village that lends the village it's name.
There was quite some discussion about playful banter of Elves and their merry attitude. Corey suggests that Gildor was likely one of the Tra-la-lally Elves that Bilbo encountered in Rivendell in The Hobbit. I believe that Gildor might well have been one of those Elves had he been there. But based on the text in this chapter, he probably was not. Frodo tells Sam "One can meet [Elves] sometimes in the Woody End. ... they wander into it ... out of their own lands away beyond the Tower Hills." It seems likely that Gildor is from the Tower Hills, not Rivendell. At least, that is what the text suggests.
There was some discussion of Elrond. We encountered Elrond in The Hobbit, not as one of the Tra-la-lally Elves, but as the Lord of Rivendell where those Elves live. However, in this chapter, he is refered to as "Elrond Halfelven", and Rivendell as "that deep valley ... where many of the Fair Folk still dwell in peace." We don't yet know the story that explains why would be called half Elven, but it seems as the text suggests we should not consider him quite the same as those who are fully Elves. It might possibly remind one of the Took-Baggins dichotomy of The Hobbit.
When discussing the stars, Corey made a comment about Mars not rising at this time of the night in September. I'm not a star or planet watcher, but I always assumed that the rising of Mars and the other planets would be more based on where they were in their orbits rather than where the earth was in it's orbit (which is what the month of September indicates). Please let me know if I'm confused on this. But Corey does make a good case of the two constellations and the red star between them.
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