Ring of Barahir

Do we consider Andunie a sub-fief of Andustar, as Emerie was of Mittalmar?

Or do we think there was no Lord or Prince of Andustar who was above the Lord of Andunie and And6nie really was a smaller semi-autonomous fief in it's own right?
 
I do believe that the official Lordship of Andunie was created as a sort of consolation prize for what would have been the king's first grandson (Valandil).
I actually thought it was a title for Silmarien's family, with her being the first Lady of Andunie and the title passing through her line.
 
In Numenor i am not so sure... the people who came to Numenor were survivors and refugees from Balar and Sirion... what may have been their forms of organisation they built upon? The traditional three Houses of the Edain? Most likely only remnants of two of these were left at the time...
There was a lot of turmoil in the decades leading to the War of Wrath that ended Beleriand so a lot of the old structures probably failed. Still the Atani who went to Numenor might have retained some of their old ethnic-cultural distinctions from the three houses. All were represented to some extent though the Hadorians we’re the dominant by initial population.

They might also have had ties to family or place. Those that could trace their descent from a hero like Haleth or Bregolas would have done so proudly. Those that once lived in the mountains of Dorthonion might have been attracted to the pine-clad highlands of Forostar. Those that melded with other refugee groups at the mouths of Sirion might have been at home in the melting pot of the port or capital cities of Romenna and Armenelos.
 
Do we consider Andunie a sub-fief of Andustar, as Emerie was of Mittalmar?

Or do we think there was no Lord or Prince of Andustar who was above the Lord of Andunie and And6nie really was a smaller semi-autonomous fief in it's own right?
I got the impression that Andunie (with its port and adjacent town lands) was the capital city with its hereditary lord who probably represented all the people of the Andustar province when in Armenelos serving as an advisor to the king in council. A bit like the city in a county that serves as the county-seat, or like the capital city of a state.
 
I actually thought it was a title for Silmarien's family, with her being the first Lady of Andunie and the title passing through her line.
I’m not sure, I know Valandil was the first Lord, that his father Elatan was a leading person but not a Lord. I can’t recall if the title started with her specifically or not, but even if that isn’t clear from the text I see no reason why we couldn’t do that, especially if it served our story and the development of the characters as we imagine them to be.
 
I hope that there was genuine affection in these matches and not just political expediency. I'd hate to think that the first "Elendil" of Numenor was a jerk.

What opportunity could a king's daughter have to establish "genuine affection" given the geographical distance? Other than seeing him very occasionaly at some festivals or some general councils she would have no possibility to meet young men regularly enough beyond family or serwants. It is not as if she would go to a mixed high-school or were working at McDonald's in her free time.

Either it would be a "love at first sight" at some random meeting passing each other "in the stairwell" of the palace or a purely dynastic alliance.
Or would we have some jousting festivals where young men from all over the county would perform their knigthly skills in front of a mixed audience?

Remember also that Silmariën is a rational creature - even if she just knows the prospective suitor to be respectable, reliable and not unlikable she might decide to marry him even without being fervently infatuated with him - as being away from the capital and out of the direct control of her parents and later her brother and being the highest noble lady in the whole area might allow her far more freedom and power than if she stayed around.

The issue would be what would cause him to marry her - her status means that she and their future children would always outrank him - this is a position most husbands would generally not like to be in if not outweighed by some other and very solid advantages - political or otherwise.

So e.g. if his position is being challenged by some local rival marrying up would be a solution to that and would consolidate his power. Or if his family is suspect for the throne already then binding himself to it by this marriage would also be a solution.

I do not think replaying the Beren and Luthien story here again would do, we have to save this one for Aragorn and Arwen. So imho it should be a differrent take on the "man-marrying-up" Tolkien trope in this case.

I think this would stress the human side of the story - human do not have the luxury to wait millenia until their fated ideal lover stumbles upon them, they have to learn to love those around them or they "die barren". Silmariën accepting this fact is accepting human limitation deriving from their mortality. She could of course stay umarried if she wanted to but that would mean letting her own line die out.

Working together on the development of Andustar might actually become a common goal they will share - there are few things so consolidating a couple than to share a common goal or passion or loving the same things together...
 
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It seems to me descendants of the Beorians mostly settled in Andustar...
Where might have been the places the Halethrim, Druedain and Hadorians settled? Hadorians most likely mittalmar and Arandor...
The Druedain, i would have suggested Hyarrostar,,but that was timer industry, i doubt the Druedain would have liked that much so... Nisimaldar and Andustar are more like it. Butnwhat about the Haladin? Emerie and Hyarrostar?
 
It seems to me descendants of the Beorians mostly settled in Andustar...
Where might have been the places the Halethrim, Druedain and Hadorians settled? Hadorians most likely mittalmar and Arandor...
The Druedain, i would have suggested Hyarrostar,,but that was timer industry, i doubt the Druedain would have liked that much so... Nisimaldar and Andustar are more like it. Butnwhat about the Haladin? Emerie and Hyarrostar?

I think there should be special thread for this as this question does not really concern the passage of the Ring of Barahir to the line of the Lords of Andunie?
 
Whe're straying away from that premise since PAGES ago...

As usual.

But it was all connected to how and why the Ring passes over - as long it stays in a bloodline it is all easy sailing, but when it crosses over - that is more complicated and needs some explaination and background? Or do you think the reason the Ring and the King's daughter would go to Andustar would be some politcal move of the Crown to balance out some inbalance in the various Numenorean noble houses?
 
Yes.Maybe. At last i think Elendil possibly would claim so when he makes himself new High-king if Arnor and Gondor and claims right to do so and put himself in place of the last King of Numenor as an heir to Elros.
 
Yes.Maybe. At last i think Elendil possibly would claim so when he makes himself new High-king if Arnor and Gondor and claims right to do so and put himself in place of the last King of Numenor as an heir to Elros.

Please elaborate. Because if the line of Silmariën is from House of Beor after their father Elatan so it difficult because Elros technically was House of Hador after Tuor? So what exactly would Elendil claim?
 
I don't know. I am confused at the moment and having trouble reading larger portions of text and understanding complex connections.
 
How about Beren giving the Ring of Barahir to Dior when he becomes engaged to or marries Nimloth?

The problem is more: why has little Elwing - out of all the people having a right to it before her - on her when she flees? It being passed down from Beren to Dior is not so big a problem - either at Dior wedding or at Beren's death.
 
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